Blacks in Buenos Aires
A reader wrote in today wanting to know about how blacks are perceived and treated in Buenos Aires. Let me first say that you don't find many blacks in Buenos Aires. The reason for this is rooted in history. Unlike the Portuguese in Brazil, the Spanish who settled in Argentina did not bring in large numbers of African slaves to work plantations. Therefore, today, you don't see very many black people in Buenos Aires.
I must admit that as a white guy and an expat, I'm not really able to discuss the Argentine people's feelings towards blacks. Since the reader's question also deals with immigration, I asked Lorena Gallardo of Argentina Residency & Citizenship Advisors to respond to the reader. Not only is she an expert on immigration law, but she's also Argentine, so she's going to be much better equipped to answer this question than I am. The question and the response are both below.
Reader's Question
I'm a Caribbean immigrant who grew up in New York, mostly Brooklyn, but now make my home in Manhattan. I'm not a citizen here, even though I've been here since I was two years old. Lately I've been on the lookout for a place to which to expatriate myself. NYC is the only place in the U.S. I'd want to live, but it's too expensive! Paris is another such place--thoroughly cosmopolitan, but unaffordable, especially if I plan to be a "semi-retired" expat. I've been considering Buenos Aires. It's like Paris, New York and Rome mixed into one, but at a fraction of the cost!
I was just wondering what it's like for blacks in Buenos Aires. I'd read that there aren't problems socializing, but there may be problems getting employment unless one is a dancer or musician; I am neither. I do not, however, plan to be looking for work in Buenos Aires. I'm considering it as a permanent expat home because it seems that I could live well on less than $1000USD/month. Also, are there complications to getting permanent residency because my citizenship is with a Caribbean country?
Lorena's Response
Black people are not often seen in Buenos Aires. Argentina was not a country with many immigrants from Africa. But the blacks that you can see around are mostly from Brazil. The cultural relationship between Argentina and Brazil is incredibly good. Argentines love to travel to Brazil during holidays and enjoy the beautiful beaches with their warm waters, and Brazilians love traveling to Argentina as they love our winter ski-season (which does not exist in Brazil.
What I want to point out is that Argentines do not have anything against black people. They respect them. I should also let you know that women in Argentina love black men from Brazil, so you won't find racist problems here. These problems appear not with color, but mainly with "origin". For example, in Argentina they do not accept kindly people coming from Paraguay, Peru, Bolivia. These people are often treated as inferior. However, the fact is that this happens because these immigrants come to Argentina without documents and to steal jobs from Argentine citizens. You could compare this situation to the treatment the Mexicans get who illegally cross into the American southwest.
I can say that, at least for the time I have been living here, I have seen that there are between 5 and 10 different neighborhoods built by different communities: Paraguay, Uruguay, China, Japan, Israel, Greeks, etc, and each community respects the other one.
Now, about getting a job, that is something that you won't be able to do. First of all, you need a work permit and you must enter the country on a work visa in order to work here. If you do find a job, they will pay you less than to any other Argentine worker, since you would be working in the black market (and when I say less, I am talking about a very very low salary -- surely you wouldn't be able to put up and maintain yourself in Buenos Aires on such a wage).
I should also point out that as a retired person, it would be even more difficult for you to find employment. There are millions of young people without jobs that you would be competing against. So, the principal option I can see for you to live here legally the pensioner visa. Assuming you can transfer your pension or social security to a bank account here, you would be able to live quite comfortably and maintain yourself at a very good standard of living. Feel free to contact me by e-mail or contact ARCA for help with your visa.
Labels: Argentina Travel, Immigration, Living In Argentina
posted by SoyYo at 4/14/2005 02:37:00 PM
78 Comments:
Anecdotally, I know that black women do not always recieve the same amount of respect that other women do in Argentina. I lived in Buenos Aires with an African-American woman, and many times when we went out together at night the sidewalks of our neighborhood became a gauntlet of leers and jeers. And they weren't shouting the usual mild piropos, these men were practicing their raunchiest Portuguese. She was even sexually harassed by one of our doormen and the driver of our boss! Since I'm American myself, I grilled my male Argentine friends about this phenomenon. And all of them uncomfortably admitted that when they see a black woman they 1) assume she is Brazilian - or should be, and 2) see her as a whore. And some of them try to treat her accordingly.
First, it is amazing reading the first commentor’s notes. Her friend’s story could have been mine. I found racism to be very prevalent in Argentina, but it is something that you wouldn’t notice if you were not a member of a minority. Once, I asked a woman on the corner for the time and she absolutely refused to acknowledge my presence. When my white friend asked, however, she responded. I was also sexually assaulted by the encargado in my apartment building because he wanted to know what it would be like to be with a black woman and constantly propositioned (outright for sex) by men on the street. Furthermore, other groups are also marginalized. The words “indio” and “chino” are often used in derogatory manners and all Asians are often characterized as being Chinese, which to Argentines is synonymous with decietful.
Second, I am always discouraged when I hear people comment that there was not a large amount of African slaves imported to Argentina. It is ridiculous not to question why there are so many blacks in Brazil and even in Urguay, but not Argentina. The difference does not have to do with the number of slaves that were imported but what happened after slavery was abolished. Many black slaves were used for fodder during the regional wars in exchange for their freedom. They were also exterminated by quarantining victims of plagues within their quarters. Many of those who lived, ended up fleeing to other countries. However, there are still several small groups that have been pushing for the recognition of Afro-Argentines. As of now, there is not even a manner to measure the number of Afro-descendents in the country because “black” or “of African descent” is not an option on the census. Lastly, I’ve found that asking Argentine’s about racism is the worst way to get a straight answer as they are more nationalistic than almost any other country in the Americas. Furthermore, many of them have no clue what happened to the black population and so they just assume that they never existed. When a white friend of mine asked his Argentine host mother what happened to the black slaves that came to Argentina she replied, “It was too cold and they froze.” The last time I checked, New York City was much colder than Buenos Aires…
Actually, the fact that blacks were not brought here in large numbers is quite true. When the first routes for slave trading were stablish, there WAS an amount of black people being brought in. But it stopped shortly after, because it wasn't good business, due to the nature of argentine economy back then. In the pampas, vaquerías was what slave workers were needed for, mainly, since cattle was the main source of export (not grains, as many people wrongly believe). Black slaves who came here were not goo horse riders, which was crucial to the vaquerías... and they were dangerous feats, too. So yes, many black folks died quite easily or just couldn't do it at all. The owners already had a lot of mestizos gauchos (who worked in slave-like conditions), so there was not much need for black slaves. They were not fit for the economy here, and there was already a traditional section of the population, mestizos and indians, who covered the kind of tasks black slaves were used for in other countries. The mines were responsible for killing more indigenous population than the armies.
The bit about the war is true, though. Whatever few black men did came here were often sent to the war with Paraguay, and killed in large numbers.
But Argentina has NEVER had a big black population. At its peak, they were mostly found in the "uptown" parts of BA, being used as house servants and butlers.
I have read from several sources that around 1810 to 1820, 1 in 3 residents of Buenos Aires were African or of African decent. Sounds like an unusually high number for simply working in the "vaquerias"! Furthermore, I did not know that "many black folks died quite easily" hmmmm, interesting. What makes so many "black folks" die so easily in Argentina but not in other places in the world where conditions were just as tough if not tougher? I guess that is the ultimate question here.
The poster above raises a valid point. With this said, would it be safe for me to wonder all over buenos aires ? I'm a haitian born, naturalized U.S Citizen. I always have a white girlfriends. I would love to vistit argentina one day, and interact with the people in the night life.. Can anyone tell what i'm getting myself into?
guys you forgot to mention the YELLOW FEVER,even though at school they teached us argentineans that Sarmiento was great and he srarted lots of schools and did a lot of things for argentineans he was a public racist,he hated blakc people and he was the president while we had a war with paraguay and he made sure he sent all black people to fight to exterminate them,and he said he wanted only wuropeans to migrate to argentina,black people were mainly found in 2 neighboorhoods> San telmo and La Boca,he made sure all black people die of yellow fever it was epidemic and the black thats tired to escape form those 2 places,sarmiento made sure he would have people around to make sure they were not allowed to leave to make sure they would all die,the ones that survived and could scape went to uruguay and brazil because they were not hated and were accepted there,at one point those 2 places san telmo,and la boca was a cementary of dead africans all over the palce in hopuses the streets,death was everywhere,learn the facts do a search,sadly thats what happened and what they try to hide form us and make up other excuses that and the paraguay war are the main 2 reasons,even thou they say white looking people from buenos aires,10% to be exact descent from africans from 1800,many generations back so many time su dont see it in the outside but u find it on the genes,thats like the africans americans many of them l,ooking black but having white irish blood etc..
so a search on yellow fever,but nowadays argentineans respect black people but they dont respect indigenous people thats a fact.
Seriously just move to Colombia, D.R. or Brazil. Its just better more black friendly and the people will definitely stand up and be proud to say that they are black or of african descent. believe me im BRAZILIAN. and as for Argentines like brazilians and respecting them it not true at all even the white brazilians dont like going to Buenos Aires because they are just racist. if you dont want to learn portuguese i seriously suggest D.R or Colombia.
I stumble upon this conversation while googling "Black in Argentina" and even though I've only been in Buenos Aires for 3 days, I am amaze at the glares and stares that I'm receiving so I did an internet search to see if anyone else have encountered the same situation.
I'm a black male born in Haiti, raised in Brooklyn with very light eyes and my Argentinian friends mentioned that the glares are because of my eye color but somehow, I felt something was off.
I must say that on one ever made any derogatory comments to me, not that I notice anyway, it's just an out of place feeling deep in my stomach. I love the city so far and I've made a lot of friends (ONLINE), mostly do to my writings but no one of those glaring eyes ever came up to me with a "Hola".
I will give it some more days/weeks and see what's on the end of this rainbow.
i would love to hear how your experience in argentina ends up as i am planning on a 3 month stay in BA in a few months. i am a dark skinned african american male living in NYC.
though i must disagree with the comments about brazil and proud of the african descent. they may not hesitate to admit they have african blood in them but... i lived in rio and sau paulo for 4 months back in 2004 and must say that i was shocked at how racist brazilians seemed to be. after speaking with a few rich brazilian friends about it, they admitted it was a secret they were not proud of and that is was more based on class than hatred of darker skin. but since the majority of darker skinned people are of "lower economic class" it is still, in my opinion, based on race.
back to argentina i have heard about the stares one will receive, but if it is out of curiosity and not hatred i think i can tolerate it. still very interested to hear any more comments. good to see this thread is still alive because for a few of us it is very relevant.
Wow...this is all very interesting...as a Nigerian born naturalized US citizen...
I'm sure what everyone is saying is true about Buenos Aires...
However, I am a tango dancer and plan to go there soon...I visited Brazil as well and its definitely true about the class thing...People sometimes looked confused when I spoke perfect english and tried to change pounds and dollars several times...I say it is a class/racist thing b/c a good handful of the blacks or darker lower class Brazilians starred at me as well...
Either way I had an amazing time. I was surrounded by educated, open-minded people and was not worried about what ignorant people thought...
Just like i am going to walk through Palermo in my jimmy choos (not really) and do the same...
There are ignorant people everyhwere...If you don't like it change it (i dont know, write a letter to the chamber of commerce)...or change your thinking as to how you let them affect you...what a waste of time...um...america also has racist people...*cough *cough
As far as history goes, the worst is probably true...but either way Argentinians still have to thank blacks for their contribution to the roots of the tango...and all ignorant people need to realize this is the year 2008!, get over yourselves!
-earthwhisper
"Actually, the fact that blacks were not brought here in large numbers is quite true."
Actually, the "fact" that blacks were not brought to Argentia in large numbers is NOT true. Buenos Aires was a major slave trading port in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. At one point, 30% of the population was black. There was a large black population in Telmo and Monserrat (in the Southern part of Buenos Aires).
Many blacks fought in the War of Triple Alliance (which the alliance- Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay - won against Paraguay). It was one of the most if not THE DEADLIEST war in South American history. Many fought in exchange for their freedom. After the war, many decided to move to Uruguay because they considered there to be less hostile conditions there.
I'M ARGENTINIAN.
I will tell you about racism in Argentina (first of all I consider myself the only one who can give an opinion, because I lived in Buenos Aires all my life)
There is NO racism to black people in Argentina. The stares you can receive will only be of curiosity, as there are no black people in Argentina.
It's true that argentines in general think ourselves as superiors to any other in the world, but we make joke of that.
Argentines DO NOT KNOW the meaning of racism to black people because they don't repare on that, they don't have racist thoughts or ideas because it's not common.
If you are black you might be very lucky with girls because it calls their attention.
Ok so I am a 19 year old Black American female planning to study abroad in Buenos Aires this summer through a program sponsored by my University. I was nervous about how I would be perceived as well so I decided to google Blacks in Argentina like a few others who posted before me. I can not say from the previous posts my fears have been eased. Someone help! Am I making a wrong decision??
Girl please, go to Buenos Aires & have fun! There are ignorant people everywhere...So unless you plan to live in a cave to avoid others, go!
You will prob encounter the brazilian prostitute phenomenon or whatever...but if u know who u are ...u just keep walking right? BA is a beautiful city with great people overall...dont focus all your energy on the negative....good luck
I arrived in BA two days ago and I'm a black woman from London. People who see me on the streets won't necessarily know the latter fact when they see me in the streets until I start talking to my friend in English. When I speak Spanish it is perfect Castillian so that is the next shocker if your accent isn't of the local variety.
I have desires to visit lots of countries in the world where it is perceived black people aren't welcomed. This didn't stop me because I have a right to travel, educate myself to people's customs and let them see a very proud black woman. Even better if they get to speak to me and find out that their stereotypes don't exist in me. Anyway, the fact is since being here two days, I am the walking attraction and haven't had anyone say anything to me negative or positive. What has brough me here is to research this very subject - the racial perceptions and experiences of black people Argentina and also in Uruguay.
Great discussion. Please keep it going and for those down there please post comments to let us know of your experience.
I found this article written by an African-American man on a visit to Buenos Aires and thought others would like it as well:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/traveler/articles/1088argentina.html?fs=www3.nationalgeographic.com&fs=plasma.nationalgeographic.com
I LOVED the national geographic article. Thanks so much for sharing it. I've been in Buenos
Aires for only one week. My situation might be a little bit different since I'm from Venezuela so the lenguage barrier is not an obstacle for me.
Being "Afro-latina" I was really afraid about racism in Buenos Aires. So far I've just received innocent comments such as "are you from Cuba?" or "que linda morocha"...nothing to worry about.
I must also say that I've only been in the Palermo area, wich they say is pretty cosmopolitan, so I wouldn't know if that is the situation in the rest of BsAs.
Since I'm planning to stay here for the "rest of my life" (I'm scared just to say it)I'm only focusing on the city's great energy and positive people I've met so far. Please do not be afraid to come here, is a great travel experience...the onlu negative thing is finding people like Lorena who thinks Bolivians come to steal their jobs...
I'm a female American grad student of Haitian descent, and I traveled to Argentina for about 3 months to work on a research project. I was in BsAs for most of the time, though I also traveled to Iguazu, Mendoza, Cordoba, Rosario, and some rural areas. I also went to Santiago de Chile for a week. I'd have to say that I definitely got the stares, and a lot of people assumed I was Brazilian. No one was outwardly rude to me. I don't think Argentines are racist toward blacks, because they know so little about them. They do generally consider themselves to be superior to indigenous people and pretty much everyone else in South America. I was approached by a lot of men (apparently they sort of fetishize black women there) but the men weren't inappropriate, where they didnt act very differently from guys in black clubs in New York. Actually, I felt more objectified by the Chilean guys, who were more vocal about liking black women. But like I said, no one was in Argentina was rude. If anything, one os more likely to encounter anti-black feelings in a place like the DR. It may be more diverse, but there tends to be a lot of negative feeling toward anyone they might perceive to be Haitian, i.e., darker. Not so in Cuba, where I was always mistaken for Cuban, and people seem to mix more.
interesting discussion. not totall relevant, but perhaps you may find this article of interest that i wrote awhile back.
http://www.slate.com/id/2154688
there are two pages to this story.
Hello
I am American and i am black. Argentina is a great place to go to.Stares? i didnt get any stares!People are totally cool.
Great Food,its hearty ,type fare.Vegetarians stay away!! I saw blacks in Buenos Aires!i dont know if they were Argentinian or not. But Buenos Aires has some extremely hot women. I love the way "Los Portenos"speak spanish.
Hola
Black American from Chicago living in San Francisco
Interesting blog.. I have traveled a lot overseas, usually the only thing people know abut black american culture is what they have seen on MTV and sometimes BET (thanks) my first time in South America will be next week. I will be in B.A. and My friends and I plan on hitting the town hard :-) So I will update you guys here on what I think through out the next few weeks
It turns out that the explanations offered in the previous comments about the disappearance of blacks in Argentina are just myths. Please see:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/04/AR2005050402125.html
To Natalia: the War of the Triple Alliance was fought in 1860s, and slavery was abolished in 1813, so there was no need for blacks to go fight to get their freedom. They were drafted and sent to the front together with many others from the poorer classes (including gauchos). Interestingly, that was not too different from what the USA did a century later in their escalation of the Vietnam conflict.
I would define discrimination in Argentina more as classism than racism. If you have money, dress mainstream cool, and hang out at the right places, your skin color or national origin will not matter. But if you are poor, speak or dress "villero", and listen to loud cumbia music, you will be derided by many middle class tilingos as a "negro cabeza" and cops will stop you as a potential criminal, even if you are blond and blue-eyed. It's not racism, but it's still a problem we argentines should fight to erradicate...
Just my 2 cents...
Hello,
I am currently looking for black women to contribute to an anthology about black women living in Buenos Aires. If you are a black women who lives or who has lived in Buenos Aires please consider contributing to this amazing project. More info below.
Call For Submissions: Anthology on black women living in Buenos Aires
Hola Morocha: Black Girl Tales from Buenos Aires
Submission Deadline: August 15th, 2008
Hola Morocha will serve as a companion for any black women planning a trip to Buenos Aires or just wondering what it would be like to take one. Part titillating read, part guide book, Hola Morocha will be made up of two parts. Part one Black Girl Tales from Buenos Aires will include real life stories written by black women from around the globe on an array of topics. Part two A Black Girls Guide to Buenos Aires will be a mini resource guide including information on where to shop, go out dancing and how to get around the city on the buses and trains.
Writer Jennifer Poe seeks first person narratives for this upcoming anthology from women living or who have lived in Buenos Aires. I want stories that are hip, fresh, sexy, humorous and intriguing. Please visit http://blackgirlsguidetobuenosaires.wordpress.com to see the blog that birthed this project and rough drafts of some of the memoirs I will contribute to the book.
Each essay should reflect a particular moment based on one of the following topics: culture shock and arriving in Buenos Aires, hair stories (including any nightmare or funny hair stories) dating, nightlife and going out dancing, sex, racism and changes (how Buenos Aires has changed you as a person). For example if you choose the nightlife topic tell the story about a particular moment when you went out dancing. Bring your essay to life. Make the reader believe they are there and excite their five senses. Take yourself back to that moment and bring the readers too. Or write as if you were retelling the story to a close friend. Remember, “Everybody is talented, original and has something important to say” Brenda Ueland. Please feel free to submit more than one essay.
Please include with your Submissions:
Your name
Age
Geographic location
Email address
Phone number
Submission title
Mini biography
Please only submit writing that has not been published unless you own the rights to your previously published work.
Send submissions to:
holamorocha@gmail.com
Hola! I was reading about argentine history cause I'm interested on it and I asked myself why we don't have a black population (like Brazil or even Uruguay) and I found this Blogg. I just wanted to say that I love black women, unfortunately I've never date one before, actually I haven't seen more than 10 black women in my life (I'm 23)... so... Black women please come to Argentina! hehe! chauu
I'm from La Plata (Buenos Aires rovince)
Ok, it seems to be quite a "hot" topic. I am personally amased by the "fascination" with blacks in Argentina. Being an Argentine-American, I could say a few things about this particular. I was born in Buenos Aires but came to the United States as an adolescent and I have lived in the U.S. most of my life (at this point). Naturally I am a U.S citizen. Yet, I speak with a British tone as that is how I learned the language in Argentina. People here ask me ALL THE TIME, where I come from. And I LOVE IT.
I am of European ancestry, and I mention this only because from that perspective, I have been able to objectively observe the differences between both countries: Argentina and the U.S. in regards to the treatment of blacks.
Argentina declared freedom from slavery in 1813. Still, many slaves within the country CHOSE to remain with the families there although they were free. The condition of being a slave there WAS NOTHING compared to the horrendous conditions they were subjected to in the U.S. (and let me point out that within the U.S., I live in one of the major cities for slave trading during the 18th century).
But, in this regard, since slavery was abolished early in the 19th century, this translated into NO FURTHER TRADING OF AFRICAN BLACKS INTO what would later become Argentina.
In Argentina, there were no KKK groups ever, no lynching ever took place here (and let us not forget that lynching in the U.S. took place well into the 1960's).
Some blacks did die of disease during the 19th century but so did many whites and indigenous people.
Let us not confuse Argentina with its neighbour Brazil. The latter still had slaves until 1888. Since Brazil was a dependency of the Imperial House of Portugal, the slave trade was immense; particularly because this country was the largest world producer of sugar; so the need for slaves to do the work made it very relevant. Furthermore, in reference to the war against Paraguay, it was this very war that contributed to end slavery (or the first steps anyway for Brazil to do so), since many still slaves there were offered freedom if they enlisted. Then in 1885, the slaves aged over 60 years were freed while for the rest of the population it was not so until 1888.
Argentina has indeed been a nation which received an enormous number of immigrants during the late 19 and early 20th century. Most of the millions that landed in Buenos Aires were indeed Europeans who were fleeing poverty and persecution. But there were also immigrants of other non-European nations who also found a safe heaven in Argentina (Armenians for example).
Did all these immigrant groups live in harmony there? Actually, YES! Their assimilation and acceptance speaks more soundly than the experience of immigrants in the U.S. (particularly those arriving in New York -- who were by the way from WHITE EUROPEAN NATIONS!).
Blacks in the U.S. are still discriminated against terribly. I notice that every day. And when I do return to Argentina (every year), and I see black people in Buenos Aires, what I notice is that people look at them with some curiosity, but not everyone. Not now anyway, since Argentina is receiving great numbers of tourism (which had never happened before). So,people are definitely seeing more folks of different ethnicities and thus are becoming more accustomed -- therefore the curiosity factor is already dying out.
Argentina is an accepting society. Certainly more so than many other South American nations. Case in point: the gay population. No problem in Argentina.
Black women: Men in Argentina tend to say things to women all the time, whether you are white or black. I have experienced it all my life and I am white. Some things they say are nice compliments which are not offensive at all. And some were outrageously disgusting. One time I was walking with my dad and this gay said something to me so offensive that my dad almost beat him up (I was about 17 years old). Things have changed now quite a bit. Most men have learned to be more respectful and they keep their comments to themselves. Some do not say anything that is not solicited. And a few will still say what-ever. Argentine women do not pay attention to such comments at all. They ignore them completely. Some women answer back with expletives (not many however).
As a woman, I do like to receive comments (nice ones obviously). And here in the United States, MEN DO NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL for fear of repercussion. Then women here complain that men do not notice them!
So, my advice is this: Argentina is a country rich in culture, history and it is full of life and vibrancy. Not to mention its natural beauty. Each person's experience whether black or white will be different because each one of us is different. We speak differently, we carry ourselves differently because each one of us is UNIQUE. Is that not what makes each one of us special? Regardless of colour?
VISIT ARGENTINA and HAVE A GOOD TIME. Argentines are friendly, welcoming people. Soon you will make a group of local friends and you will have the time of your life. Argentines do like people with a certain level of culture. Behave like you "belong" and soon you will totally "belong". Do not go with pre-conceptions that may be unfounded.
Does anyone know of a white Argentine marrying a black woman of any nationality? If yes, in what country and city have and do they live?
Just to throw in my comment about visiting Argentina as a black person. I have visisted Argentina many times, and in fact married a woman from Buenos Aires. I myself am from the caribbean, however, I have lived in the USA for years. Like anywhere, if you are the minority in an environment, you will come across some opposition. Be that if you are poor trying to frequent a wealthy establishment, if you have a disibility, and needless to say if you are also of a different color in a country which is 99% white. My experiences in Argentina are vast. I would say that in general, Argentina is like anywhere else. However, there are obvious predjudices in Argentina. If you look at the majority of poor people who are in Buenos Aires, you will be able to note that most of them are of Indian or native heritage. So it's obvious to see that the ones at the bottom of the food chain are native Argentine's. (take a look outside the main center hub of the city, this will become even more evident). There are celebrities of mixed heritage, like Maradonna and a few others who came from the slums, but in general this is the exception not the rule. I have had a few small run in's with predjudice people there myself, one example being in the airport coming back to the USA, the girl checking passports was letting all the other tourist through without a problem, then when it came my turn, I was stopped, and held up for 15 minutes while she checked every piece of info in my passport. She took so long, it was even bothering other people who were in back of me, so I obviously had to take a moment and reflect to situations in the USA, to understand this was a racist moment and just grin and bare it. I simply laughed and said I know you are not used to seeing us black people, but you don't have to be scared, we don't bite (lol) she didn't see the humor in that..lol.. It's best to say that if you are of native heritage or of African anscestory, your best bet is not to think of living in Argentina. Not because I think the level of intolerance is to the point where something sinister can happen to you, it's just how comfortable do you want to live your life..If you can stand being the center of attention for all the wrong reasons then maybe it's a place for you, other than that, Buenos Aires is truly somewhere that has not crossed into the new era of racial relations. The food is great (meat is off the chain), cost of living phenomenal, but unless you have a lot of money, do not go to Argentina thinking you will have it easy in the job market in Buenos Aires. Even the white people of Buenos Aires are having it difficult, so imagine. For myself, I still think the USA, despite all the craziness that occurs, is still best for a person of color and with the opportunities currently present it's measurable to have a certain degree of success. A lot of people are intrigued by the Tango (myself included), but besides that and the before mentioned, I don't find Argentina a place I would want to live as a person of color. I also have to agree with other bloggers who are of color whom had stares when entering places, and have been subjected to certain stereotypical responses from some locals. My advice to those of color wanting to go to Argentina, is to go with an open mind, but be aware it is a different culture there, and that you might not always be accepted, but if you go with an open mind, you will also find that you won't have such a bad time. And like everywhere, class plays an important role in Argentine society. So if you are a brother with some money, you will obviously find things a bit easier for you than if you are not so well endowed in the pocket. Other than this, if you meet the right people, and develop friendships, there is a possibility that new doors can open up. After all, the whole world revolves around the $$ bill..so if this is not a hinderance for you, by all means..enjoy a trip to Argentina
Hi i'm a black South-American from Suriname living in The Netherlands.. Me and some friends want to travel to Argentina-Buenos Aires.. are there any good clubs there in Buenos Aires so we can chill out.. And what about shopping..
This is for Lorena Gallardo of Argentina Residency and Citizenship Advisors. People are bought in Bolivia, Peru, and Paraguay and even Argentinians to work in illegal businesses thoughout BsAs and it's suburbs. One such family managed to escape their sweatshop prison on Parque Avellaneda where there are at least 40 illegal sweatshops. These people are RECRUITED however when they arrive they are imprisoned within the factories and denied pay or even adequate food. Your own BsAs Ombudperson office estimates there are around 150,000 people being held in bondage.
Wow! Interesting discussion. I am a black U.S. naturalized citizen of Caribbean descent currently living in the U.S. Virgin Islands. I plan on vistiting B.A for a couple months and was rather excited until I read this thread. I still plan on going to B.A. but now I'm super nervous about traveling by myself. Nonetheless, thanks to everyone that posted. The information was extremely helpful (factual or not), it help me get a sense of what I may be getting myself into. Mucho gracias!
I lived in Buenos Aires (BsAs) for 3 years. I worked as an ESL instructor to youth, and adult professionals. My work took me all over BsAs and the outer provinces, normally by train. I found ignorance beyond compare in the big city and less in smaller provinces like Moron or Castellar, yet it was there too. I found even more shocking the denial as well as the horrid pollution of the water systems in places like La Boca or Puerta Madera, and I mean pollution that would shock any city dweller. Yes, the countryside is beautiful (where there has been no illegal dumping).
Yes, people assumed I was from Brazil or played basketball. I'm a tall black guy born/raised in Puerto Rico. Yes I saw 3 interracial couples (white guy with black woman), but the women never spoke. I guess due to the ignorance they probably face daily on the streets. I received the most overt racism from German nationals and French tourists. A German literally called me the "N" word on a public street in broad daylight, and guess what he was in business attire, not a skin head! The French tourists were flight attendants who threw their drinks at me and 2 of my black Brazilian friends while walking along La calle Florida. Nope, they weren't drinking alcohol. We later got local street guard/police to detain them just to show teach them a lesson on what humiliation feels like. In general BsAs is mixed with variety, but the majority will always call themselves white. They do have a disdain for Indios from Chile and especially Bolivia. The disdain is all the same as they truly see these people as black. I think as long as you're just visiting and not planning on a long stay, you'll be treated with "smiles" even if only plastic ones. Don't ignore places like Patagonia, Mendoza, and Cordoba. Don't just spend your time in BsAs. There's a lot to see and remember THIS IS YOUR WORLD just as much as it is an Argentine's so see and enjoy ANYWHERE your heart desires to go! Don't let a-holes/racists stop you. Words are words, and don't let them define you. If someone wants to get physical, steer clear, or carry some mace and always travel with a friend or friends! Enjoy.
why would anyone want to visit a country that takes pride in being 'white-only' and diminishes the humanity of other human beings based soley on one's ethnicity, nationality and or color of one's skin???? That would be akin to a Jewish person visiting Germany in 1940... Why would any self-respecting person put him/herself in a situation where he/she may be dehumanized with belittling jeers and stares, as though one were a creature in the zoo on display for the pleasure of others, not to mention being treated as though one were invisible??? Why would any non-white person want to visit a RACIST country??? Again I say it's akin, to a Jewish person visit Gernamy in 1940-- it makes no sense...
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Hi Corey - do a bit more research before you go.. if your music is not AC/DC or heavy metal, i.e. music along those lines, it may not find a receptive audience in Argentina... if people will treat you as if you are invisible or with disrespect because of your race - how do you seriously expect that they wil buy your music?
Oh btw, heres a link I found in my research..
http://argentinastravel.com/1165/zizek-at-niceto-in-palermo-hollywood/
Hiphop isnt the only thing I do, but I did grow up on it..hiphop not "lickmylollipoplaffytaffy,supermandat,imsohoodcandyshop,lookinboy"
crap you hear on the radio..
God Bless
Interesting - good luck getting into clubs or having people talk with you... urban in that article doesn't necessarily mean black urban - the main profiler in it was a white guy who used to work on Wall Street, living in the urban metropolis of NYC.. by Hip Hop I hope they don't mean the white version like I saw travelling across europe - French and Italian rappers, etc - not the Black American version of Hip Hop that you may mean - I also saw in Asia Japensese 'Hip Hop' performers, rappers, etc... Either way, enjoying the music and accepting the one who brings it are 2 different things... my prayers are with you in your travels...
"why would anyone want to visit a country that takes pride in being 'white-only' and diminishes the humanity of other human beings based soley on one's ethnicity, nationality and or color of one's skin... Why would any self-respecting person put him/herself in a situation where he/she may be dehumanized with belittling jeers and stares, as though one were a creature in the zoo on display for the pleasure of others, not to mention being treated as though one were invisible??? Why would any non-white person want to visit a RACIST country???"
To make it better. I live in a country that is racist, but less so in my lifetime. When I started in banking I wasn't the first generation of African-American to work in banking, but I was among the first to move into managerial and supervisory roles. I experienced direct, overt and covert racism. But I stuck it out and did well and changed people perceptions of African-Americans in that setting. I wanted to quit sometimes, but I had to face my fears and theirs too. Because of that, my daughter will not face what I faced. That's why people do it.
Thanks for this post. I am making plans to go to Argentina to do some research on blacks there and learn my spanish. I am a black female and needed the heads up. Thanks!
Hello,
I am a black woman from the Southern United States living in Neuquen, Argentina (Patagonia region) on a job assignment. I have been here for about 2 months now and I can count on one hand, the number of black people I've seen so far. I saw one guy who looked like he was basketball player who is possibly from the US, but everyone else looked liked they were from other South American countries. Anyway, I am not in a large city like Buenos Aires, it is a small city and I get a lot of stares and when I walk on the street or in the mall, guys either yell things at me or say something sort of low under their breath. I don't speak Spanish very well (I am learning right now) so I don't really know what they are saying (maybe that is a good thing I don't understand!). I have noticed at times when I am walking or waiting on a bus, a older guy will pull over and stop his car and blow his horn I suppose for me to come over and talk to him (I just ignore him of course!). Also since I am new here and don't have any friends, I usually go to a restaurant alone and eat. If I look up at people while eating and I randomly come into eye contact with an old guy, he would come up to my table and bring his drink and everything and try to talk to me!! Therefore, I believe some of the men here think I am a prostitute or something. I don't dress hootchie or anything like that, but for some reason they think that about me. So now, when I go to eat out alone, I just look directly down at my plate, but there is nothing I can do about the comments on the street but ignore them. But I think they yell at most girls walking down the street here and are used to being ignored, so that is something I can handle. It is not so bad here, except that I am the only black person here at my job and I don't know what I am going to do about my hair. I haven't been to a hair salon yet, but I doubt they would know what to do with my hair. I brought some relaxer kits from home, but I don't know how to do my own perm. But one thing that I really like is when I go out to the club with my co-workers; I get lines of guys wanting to dance with me!!
Just returned from Buenos Aires...stayed for 10 days and from the moment i stepped out of customs, i got stared at...i immediately put my glasses on....you know where you walk towards the cab...there were a group of men and they stared and stared......the first two days i did feel uncomfortable....but my two friends who are like myself afro caribbean pretty much thinks racism only exist on TV and so i decided to let them lead the way...so i ignored the stares and just be...had fun after i did that....i even walked and explored the city for a day by myself, ohh yes there was a lot of stares but i wore my Gucci glasses and pretended not to see...the natives are more friendly, perhaps they feel a kinship...on the one day i was dressed like a tourist..i.e. cargo pants and t-shirt ...i heard Obama Obama..lol..from the natives....i smiled...one fat native did say "morena in an insulting way" because we were not interested in the restaurant he was promoting but you know what I get stares in USA as well...try go into a high end store on 5th avenue even if you dress as if you own the store....most white people just don't like black people anywhere....so either you hide in your home or your 100% black country(even in the black countries you have color prejudices so its not totally non exist) or you go forth and experience the world...suck for Argentina if they want to be a white only country...they missed out on a lot of contribution from non white ....more for Brazil and other south american countries....let them live in their 100% european world...they are slow to learn that this world is slowly loosing power...for eg. their neighbor Brazil, now part of the BRIC economies and where is Argentina? I say the joke is on them.....plus french people who cry about the immigrants in their country will need somewhere to escape to, so Argentina does serve a purpose......but for how long can it exist like this? No matter how racist america is , after traveling in europe extensively and africa, i realize that USA is the ONLY country in this world that welcomes all, even with our new border fence.....in america people can fight discrimination, people don't have to fight to be acknowledge, if you work really hard and focus on your goals and ignore the racism you can achieve.....with all its fault, America is the ONLY multi- cultural country....and no matter what those who refuse to let go of the negative will say, we see evidence of this daily.....My declining USA dollar did help pay some Argentinian salary for 10 days and we spend a lot of money!!! as us blacks always do....so how i see it with all the stares and remarks and shut out...i gained, as i explored the city, soaked up the culture, had new experiences and returned to my Lovely Estados Unidos to swear in my new black president while Argentinians celebrate their pure "whiteness" and argue over "Kirchnerism vs Duhaldism" and all in between....so i say to all blacks...Go, visit, do whatever, don't break laws...you are living a better life....you are not closed off...you are gaining experiences, learning of different cultures, while they remain in a box....they loose, you gain!!
I am a dark skin black man and I have been in Buenos Aires for 2 days. I was a bit apprehensive in coming here given many of the comments I've read here. Honestly, I don't know what every is talking about. I have gotten very few looks from people while walking about, and I was intentionally looking to see if I was being stared at. Someone may hold a glance for a few seconds every now and then, but seriously, it's like being in any other major bustling city like NYC, Paris or Rome. Most people are so busy going about their business and pushing through the crowd they could care less about you one way or the other. As a black man currently in Argentina, all this fear about traveling here was uncalled for. If you are letting race hold you back from visiting B.A. you are being ridiculous. Now Chile on the other hand, I got stared at like crazy over there. It could get pretty uncomfortable at times, but Argentina has been like a relief. If you are afraid of being glared at, don't go to Chile!
@Chirs
You have only been there for 2 days, some of the comments posted earlier were from those who have been in Argentina a lot longer. Not trying to stir, just pointing out the obvious.
I'm from argentina and came to this post by searching Black people in Argentina, since i'm gathering material about the subject to write a post.
I'm white, and i can answer about some points.
1) We are a little racist i think.
2) If you are a black man and goes to a tabern, you will have a lot of propositions of women. Either way if you are a black girl, man will want to date you.
3) A lot of dominican black girls came here to exercise prostitution. That¡s why we could confuse a black girl with a hooker. If you speak english, attitude will change more warmly.
4) Stares are real, is just curiosity, im sure no one got a bad look, just curiosity.
5) We have no black people living here, i think i see a black person every 10 days, and i live in capital city.
6) Those who were asking what happened to black argentinians: Yellow fever, first line in wars of 1820 to 1860, they got very mixed with whites (i have friends who had grandfathers black), in two or three generations the black look doesn't show anymore. Recent studies proved that a lot of people in argentina, like 13% had black blood (search in google).
Anyways, i think you could have fun in here either black or white. Regards!
This is Chris from a few posts up. It's a few months after my S. America trip. I was in Buenos Aires for not very long. I was there about 4 days, then went to Montevideo for a few days, then came back to B.A. for a few more.
I was expecting lots of rude stares from people, but by and large, just walking about the streets, I just didn't notice much. Only place I started feeling like I was being uncomfortably gawked was in Recoleta while walking to the famous cemetary. That area is really rich and snobby, so I wasn't too surprised that someone of African descent walking through is going to draw lots of attention.
All the waiters were friendly and I didn't catch any drama as far as service and treatment goes. I stayed in hostels and found the staff to all be friendly and helpful.
Now obviously I'm talking as a tourists to other potential tourists. I'm not comparing my experience to someone that actually lives there as it's not comparable.
Also, some black dudes in here have mentioned that Argentine women will be very interested in them. I didn't see anything unusual in that department when I went out clubbing. Seemed no different than going out anywhere. Most women aren't going to jump all over you no matter what country you go to. Though the experience might be different for others. From what I hear, Argentine women are tough nuts to crack regardless.
All in all, I didn't think there was much reason to be concerned about how you will be treated in Argentina if you choose to travel there. I stayed in Mendoza too for a few days and even though that's a smaller town, there was probably less staring there than even in B.A. which was surprising to me as I thought it would be the other way around. As a tourist it seemed fine enough to me and if they know you are a tourist I don't think you'll bear the brunt of any of the negative attitudes that might exist. I also think that many Argentines look favorably on Barack Obama so that is also helping the image of blacks traveling abroad.
If you do feel uncomfortable though, you can cross the river plate to Uruguay. There is an native black population there of Afro-Uruguayans so unlike Argentina, the Uruguayans are used to seeing blacks walking about and you shouldn't notice too much staring as they are used to seeing us. Even though there appears to be a lot of race/class segregation there, as there is in Brazil.
Hey All,
My name is D, and here is what I'd like to contribute:
I'm 25 years-old. I'm half Persian and half Jamaican. I'm what many would call a "light-skinned black person" -- though I've been called Brazilian, Cuban, and many other Latin American decents in the past.
I've been in Buenos Aires for just over 4 months now. I live in the "exclusive" Barrio Norte area of the city. I'm self employed and make close to 40,000 dollars per year, which allows me to travel the world, stay in fancy apartments, and, I guess, live "the life" as many would label me.
I've been started at on the colectivos (buses) here, but it felt like it had a lot to due with curiosity more than anything. I've encountered MANY rude waiters, but I've also encountered a fair amount of nice ones as well -- to be fair.
I've spoken to many argentines (well, a few) about the race / class situation here, and many have admitted that Argentines have a superiority complex. Some have told me about the "negro" and "nregrita" nicknames for people. In fact, once someone told me to call their friend "negrito" since he was a darker Argentine. They both, he and his friend, told me that it was friendly.
So all in all, I DO feel that there is class-ism and racism here, but I have not EXPLICITLY experienced anything personally. I am dating a white Argentine female. I'm around, mostly, white Argentine males. And I have had no real problems interacting with white Argentine females in clubs -- one recently asked if she could kiss me (probably out of curiosity) -- and I said sure, why not. It was fun.
But what has recently made me start searching the net about "blacks in Argentina" was when someone referred to me (not directly, but to the girl I'm dating) as colored -- and what her father would think of that, he remarked.... got me thinking about the race situation here....
I'm all about peace and happiness, so I probably don't pay much attention to any racism directed towards me... (and I'm sure that there probably has been -- which I haven't even noticed...), but it PAINS ME DEEPLY to hear about the things people of darker complexion go through here. Deeply hurts my heart and spirit. The girl I'm dating has confirmed many of my thoughts about the probable racism here, and she agrees that it's very prevalent (she is a portena -- born here in BA)....
I advise that if you are "a person of color" and are thinking of coming to BA -- then you should come. REALIZE that people who have a problem with you because of the color of your skin, it's, in fact, THEIR problem and NOT yours.
And remember, this is a "3rd world country", people aren't going to turn down your money, no matter what color you are. It's not likely to happen here. And though I'm VERY SAD to hear of these many cruel stories of things that have happened to black people here in BA, I'm not going to run out of this city just yet. Because the reality is that there is racism everywhere. If one runs, it'll peruse us even more. If remains, and be the change he wants to see, a clarity will evolve.
In conclusion, no doubt, there is racism (and more so, CLASSISM here in BA)... but it's not worth NOT visiting this place. THIS IS YOUR LAND TOO. Visit and make the BEST of your time here.
Peace and Love,
D
PS.... feel free to email me if you'd like. I'm still here and probably will be for a few months.
PSS.... MAKE SURE TO VISIT SALTA WHEN YOU'RE IN ARGENTINA... IT'S MUCH, MUCH, MUCH MORE RELAXED AND CHILL THAN BA... THE PEOPLE ARE SO, SO, SO ..... MUCH MORE NICER....
Hi I'm a Black female and I live in Jamaica even though I was born in the U.S...I'll be going to BA soon on a study abroad program and I'm just curious to see how close the Argentine culture is to the Caribbean culture. Also, I'm really finding it hard to figure out what to do with my hair seeing that the black population is so small. (Does that rule black hair salons out?) Thanks to this blog all my other questions were answered and I feel like I will enjoy my stay in BA regardless of the gawking and staring.
Hi all,
Comments have been very informative. I, too, was worried about the race thing, but it seems that BA is no different from any other country--certainly not to the extent that it would deter me from visiting.
Anyhow, I'll be studying in BA for a few months and one question has been terribly troubling me, and I'm hoping someone may have an answer. Is there a place in BA for a black guy to get a decent haircut, or should I learn to cut my own hair before arriving?!?
Thanks y'all,
D
Fascinating commentary. Thank God I booked my travel earlier today before reading these postings. I'm a black female who'll be in Argentina over the Christmas holiday season. These accounts are not that encouraging, however, I agree that the "isms" shouldn't stop us from exploring our world and exposing ourselves to other perspectives. Ignorance can't deter us from enjoying life and all it has to offer. If anyone has any info about events of interest in BA during the week between Christmas and New Years do share: jamadian@verizon.net I'd also like recommendations re: the best parts of the city to stay. I'd like a little luxury and pampering--safety is also a concern.
Thanks!
So I wrote on this blog 3 months ago and I have come to find that although the blatant stares and pointing have been annoying, I have gotten over it, and so will they if they realize that you are there to stay (as a tourist/student). I definitely still get stares on the colectivos and trains but it's fine. " Que lina morena" here and there but who doesn't like compliments? Some guys are very forward here but some know their place. They seem to be like that with women in general. Going to clubs have been interested because it seems that many guys are curious about black females and always want to dance with me and my fellow black classmates.
I've definitely had the awkward moments, eg. having a random person come out of nowhere and touch my hair, a family pointing at me when i'm less than 3 feet away, children asking me to take pictures with them, etc. Nevertheless, I like it here and I suggest going to Mendoza, Salta and Jujuy because it's way more chill and beautiful there and I think they are used to more tourists passing through there.
And for guys worrying about where to cut their hair, my friend got his hair cut at a salon/ barber. No big I think, but for the ladies...I don't know. I chose to avoid that problem by wearing braids. I think that if Argentina is on your list of places to travel to you should definitely come. Travel and experience new cultures. Chau
I'm so excited I found this blog with these posts! I've read everyone of them and have mentally filed away tons of information. I'll be living in Mendoza for six months for schooling beginning in May of 2010. I wanted to know what I could possibly face when going to Argentina. I'm black..not Caribbean or anything as nice as that..just plain deep south Arkansan 23 year old black...lol. I'm really excited about my trip now, just to face some hurdles and open my very limited small town view. Racists will be racists and there's nothing I can do about that. I can appreciate the blatant ones cause the ones that are silent could be deadly..yah feel me! Anyhoo..it cracked me up to see some concerns about hair...My mom won't go anywhere if she can't get her hair done. I'm a natural myself so, will be rocking the curly fro and twists. But hey if y'all with the hair concerns are still there when I'm there...I can put on some creamy crack for you or line your edges up free of charge! Just that I'd bring a little humor to a very serious topic..just how I roll Haha! I'm serious about the hair though.
I am planning on visiting BA next month and reading your blogs makes me not worried at being stared at. I am 54 and born and raised in mississippi do you think I am worried about folks staring at me. Been to Iraq, Korea, Brazil Germany Paris S Africa and Netherlands, My home state is the worst place i ever been.
Thanks guys my trip to Buenos Aires for spring was booked before I stumbled on this topic (thanks to Frommer's and their allusion to a race issue) I'm a black girl from Barbados, and as a Caribbean black person tend to be more oblivious to racism than my African American counterparts (in spite of living in the US for 10 years) unless it’s overt.
Now I know expect to be stared at and to skip the 3 hours a week I was going to devote to brushing up my Spanish if I don't want to be mistaken for a Dominican/Brazilian prostitute. Excellent! - more time for tango classes. - A blissfully ignorant travel happy Barbadian girl :)
I am an african woman married to an argentinean, we have two kids and we're thinking about moving to BS AS for good, from the US. I have been there to visit his family three times, and all three times, I have been stared at numerously, which I did not mind. But now that we're thinking about living there permanently, possibly, I wonder how it will be for me and mostly for our kids? Are there any black women living there in the same curcumstances I could connect with?
Hey guys, I have found it quite fascinating to see the different directions in which this thread has gone. Personally I have never been to B.A., but I do know what it's like to be stared at relentlessly. I took a trip to China with my sister last November. The city we traveled to (Xiamen) wasn't the typical touristy Beijing or Shanghai by any means. The fact that it's an island makes it a vacation spot for people who live in China. Needless to say, we were the only people of color we saw for the duration of our trip, and probably the only ones that they saw too.
The stares at first were kind of annoying, but eventually we got used to them, and even found them kind of funny. I would often stand outside of the hotel and watch as passerby's would glance over at me and then do a quick double take. They would even start tapping their friends to get their attention so that they too may join in on the staring. lol I turned it into a game because when I would look up at them they would realize they were staring and try to play if off. Then I would turn away and catch them staring back out of my peripherals. We repeated these steps several times until they were out of my line of sight. Also when we took a tour of some of the factories where some of America's finest brands are stitched together, we soon discovered that our presence was detrimental to their productivity. They stopped and look at us like celebrities, and when I waved at them, their response could have fooled me into thinking that i was indeed Michael Jackson.
Overall, it was all just simple, harmless curiosity. They didn't mean any harm, or even to make me feel uncomfortable, it was just that I was somebody they've probably never seen before. The older ones who were from the era of a country isolated didn't seem too excited about our presence, but they just turned away without expressing too much interest. The people of Xiamen, even though they stared tirelessly, were more excited about our presence than they were upset about it. I would love to go back there, are I'll take it with the stares and all.
I am a light skinned African American woman currently in Bs As. Did I mention I have a huge afro? They stare as thou I am not human. It is very uncomfortable. I can tell the difference between staring out of curiosity or out of hatred. I have an advanced level of spanish and I have over heard Argentine's speaking badly of me, my size, my hair or whatever they feel at the moment. There have been times when I have responded and they usually look shocked. Nevertheless I am extremely saddened by the treatment of blacks here, and because I am an open minded individual, I hope to find an Argentine who can change my perceptions of these people. Otherwise I think they are arrogant, ignorant, bigots, who eat way too much beef!
I'm sorry to say not all argentines, but of all the places I've traveled Argentinians are some of the most arrogant racist people I've encountered, they truly have a superiority complex. I was business in Buenos Aires for about 3 weeks a few years ago, and I am AFrican-American, and while in the office setting they were cordial but outside of the office, I've never felt so out of place. I had a lady watch me walk to the ATM and when I attempted to purchase a magazine from her stand, because, the bills returned from ATM were large she swore the bill was fake. Literally, she grabbed her son who did speak English, and I was like are you kidding me, you just saw me walk the bank right in front of your stand. I went out to the club, and literally, everyone swore I was Brazilian and I was like no I'm from the states, more importantly it was like what are you doing in my country, as though I had no right to be there. Anyone who says this country is not racist, is insane, they are certainly racist against blacks, as a whole they are pretty racist toward anyone who is not of European ancestory.
I just got back from Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay on August 23 2010. Brazil is very mixed, whatever your race is, you should not be victim of any racism, unless you are too sensitive and think everything is racism. Even the TV programs seem to be targetting a very diverse audience. I saw plenty of black movies, shows, and commercials featuring Blacks. Credit to Lula, the President. In Argentina, I have not seen anything out of place either. I am 6'3, 200 Lbs, and athletic built black man, from the USA but not native. I got a few friendly stares nothing bad. I spoke to people in a very relax and comfortable way, and did not see any rejection, in fact they opened up more. I caught a few people staring at me, even old ladies, I smiled, they smiled back. Someone I did not know, on Calle Florida said to me "Welcome to Argentina!". I thought that was nice. I did not go to any club opr bar, did not try to get any girl on the street or a cafe. I did not do anything that would put me in competition with Argentinian males, that is usually where racism stem from. So I would not know very much how exclusive the society was. But I did talk separately to a few African vendors on 19 Julio Avenue, who live in Buenos Aires. They told me that they have not been victim of any racism in Argentina, that everything is ok. Only one told me that "there are good people, and there are bad people, like every where else". That sums it. Montevideo, Uruguay, I spent one day, but I definitely saw a few more black natives on the Street than in Buenos Aires. I just say if you go to Argentina, enjoy your trip, and remember you are in a foreign country, and don't do anything provocative.
I am a black man living in Buenos Aires for 6 years. Its a decent city if your careful and the people, well I have mixed feelings about them.
Anyone who says there isn't racism anywhere in Latin America is lying. And the reason why there aren't as many Black people in Argentina and other regions is as a result of blanquimiento or "Whitening", intended erasure of Black phenotypes. Now if you are a Black American, you might get slightly different treatment based on your American status. And to correct one person's comment, romantic or sexual feelings towards Black men and women (objectification) does not equate racial acceptance. Slave masters slept (raped) their slaves all the time, and it wasn't out of love or romance. My take is coming from a Black-American woman of caribbean descent who has lived abroad in various countries in Latin America. The racism in my experience has by far been the worst in the Dominican Republic, where many thought I was Haitian, and thus, a reminder of their African heritage. I get it bad in Florida from White Cubans as well. Anytime I was approached in a less than overtly offensive way, it was because they viewed me as a sexual object, automatically open to sexual advances, regardless of how modestly dressed I was. These same men would then spit out racial epithets in a heartbeat when I refused advances. Sweetie there will be racism and/or ethnocentrism nearly everyplace you go where you are the minority, it's up to you what degree of it you are willing to deal with. I myself choose to fight it, both in the states and abroad.
Wow... What a interesting read! I'm a South African black "liberal" (race doesn't really matter for me) male. The whole discussion is very enlightening because even though in SA, black people are the majority and we embrace the notion of a "rainbow nation"; racial tensions do play themselves out rather publicly.
I'm not naïve, but I'm a bit surprised; as I thought South America would be more receptive to diversity. After all form part of the Global South. I guess racial politics are pervasive.
The "stealing of the jobs" remark, is a similarly made by some South African's towards non-citizens. But its all ignorance. I have been to Europe and I stare those who stare at me.
Planning my trip to BA in the summer! I'll humour whatever stares and glees I get. Life is a chivalry!!! We have to make it work. Hola!!!
Like many of you, I stumbled across this post by searching for blacks in Argentina. I have spent the past hour and half reading all the post. I have gone back and forth as to whether do I take a vacation to Argentina or not based on the comments. I am an african-american male who is single and looking for a wife :-). I traveled to Guatemala so I have experienced people staring. Like many of you said, it is usually out of curiosity. I have met some good people in Guatemala. What I have noticed is how we all (including myself) are using race to identify ourselves. Therefore, we all have a little racism in us. It's how you channel that racism (to discreminate agaisnt someone that is different or to learm from someone that is different). The individual that posted 4 comments above me, (african-american male) made an intersting comment, "you are in a foreign country, and don't do anything provocative," speaks volume to how you preceive a certain set of people. That can be a symptom of low-self esteem. That's another subject. From all the post I have read, everyone spoke respectfully and seem to be people of character, whether they are black or white, US citizen or Argentinian. So I am going to do like I usually do, go and enjoy myself. I am looking to visit Argentina's during the summer session (April-June). I will most likely be going solo. I like making friends internationally. If you care to connect or if you are planning on being in B.A anytime from April-June of 2011, please e-mail me at outdoors2008@live.com. My name is Craig! I live in the Washington DC area. Follow your dreams!
Hi, I'm an African American female from the "deep South" of the U.S. I am engaged to a man from Chad and was browsing various articles on living abroad when I ran across one on Argentina. As I found myself mesmerized by the description of sheer beauty and affordability, unfortunately I came to the realization that the experience of the majority is often completely different for people of color. So I typed into google "blacks living in Argentina" (like everyone else did apparently.) What I've read on here has been both inflammatory and mildly humorous. The testimonies were exactly what I thought I'd find for black people living in a society as a minority. I won't take this as an opportunity to vent about the global stigma attributed to dark skin and african ancestry but let's just say it aches my heart indescribably...
I have a myriad of feelings regarding what I've read here because most people seemed to brush off the stares as curiosity. But for many who were stared at, harmless curiosity on the part of the Argentine was perceived as distrust, antagonism and bigotry. And of course we know the adage: perception is reality.
I know that I am particularly sensitive to overt and covert racism having grown up in the South so I think I'd have a heightened inclination to perceive the stares, propositions and unrecognizable Spanish utterances as being hateful. The silver lining to being marginalized and stereotyped is that it helps build resilience and tenacity. I am not deterred from visiting or even living (for a brief time) in Argentina; on the contrary, I welcome the opportunity to break down social stigmas and ignorance. And judging from these posts I've read from everyone else, I'm not the only one up for the challenge. Hola! Or as we say down South--HOLLA! :)
Hey guys, I'm a black male from the south and I'm currently studying abroad in BsAs for 6 weeks. Of course I read about the racial situation before I came and I think that everything that I expected turned out to be true. There are VERY VERY little black people here and the ones that you do find tend to be Dominican. It's not a horrible situation because being the minority isn't anything that's new to me. I attend the University of Georgia which is only 8% black... BUT I will say that I was taken back by the stares and looks that I have gotten while here. I know that some are simply attributed to their curiosity of me being a tourist from the U.S., but then there are times when you know that it's deeper than that. I can be in the city and get GLARING stares at me as if they have never seen somebody of color before. Other times you might notice a couple constantly looking over at you and talking about you while you're in a restaurant. It's not something to cry over but it can be something that will make you a little angry sometimes. The terms "negrito" and "negrita" do exist and although no one has been bold enough to say it to my face, I do know that I have been referred to as a "negrito". There's simply a different level of attention that I receive vs. my white friends.
It can be frustrating but I wouldn't say that it's something that should stop anybody for visiting. I'm only here for 6 weeks which is just enough, but if you're considering living here then turn the other way. There just isn't enough support for people of color.
Today I have to tackle the task of finding somebody who can give me my first haircut. This should be fun...
Hi everyone,
As an argentine, it saddened me a lot when I read some comments. Actually I perceived that Argentina was getting better on the discrimination thing. What I can say from my perspective is that yes, seeing black people is highly unusual, and that'd may be the reason why some of you guys got stares.
Apart from that, once you get to chat with somebody and express yourselves, there's no reason why the initial surprise factor or whatever you want to call it should persist.
Here we have jews, armenians, koreans, chinese, and I can assure you that discrimination is kept to a tiny minimum.
It's true that some limited people will criticize what they don't know. Maybe they have boring lives and feel frightened by new things.
My advice is: relax, drop the little paranoia if you have it and let people know you personally. You can't expect anything negative out of that.
Ah, and one last thing, the word "negrito" is no way a racial slur! I would even say that to a certain degree it expresses affection (it's hard to explain). Please don't take it literally.
Best,
Juan
I have read with great interest the previous comments above and I just thought I’d include my experiences travelling in Buenos Aires as well. I must say that I am in general agreement with most of the comments above so I’m not going to repeat them. I have been to Buenos Aires twice with my girlfriend; she’s loves fashionable leather (purses and clothing) and I love wine and pampas bred tenderloin. I also purchased leather goods also (coats, belts & shoes). The prices were as expected a third of what I would pay in the US. I found the “Portenos” to be generally friendly towards us and I suspected that this was because they realized we were Black English speaking tourists. We are both from Bermuda with a Black majority population with a highly developed economy and standard of living.
Our island culture is to be polite, cordial and to have good manners towards each other and especially the tourists on our island and I EXPECT the same treatment when I travel. While in Buenos Aires, I could only knew 4 words in Spanish = Hello, Goodbye, Thank you and Please. I found that smiling, being polite and using those 4 words went a long way when dealing with retailers. You will encounter the occasional bigot which are everywhere in the world (I encountered more bigots in Zurich than Buenos Aires). I do empathize for our Black women, they do receive more derogatory treatment in Argentina than men. My girlfriend is well endowed in the butt so the men in B.A. just could not control themselves. It never got out of hand because as a self confident Black man, I was not going to stand idly by and allow such disrespectful behavior towards my lady. I didn’t have to understand the words they were saying but I know insulting behavior when I see it. They’re not used to dealing a Black man whose willing to get aggressive if the situation warrants it. As said in an earlier post, the instigators usually back down once challenged. Above all, I remember, I’m just visiting this foreign country so I pick my battles; most of the time, it just required that I adopt my “extreme aggressive posture” as if walking in the South Bronx at 4 a.m.
Overall, we had a great time in B.A. and look forward to returning. I dislike the winter months in the Northern Hemisphere and I love the weather from January to March.
We found the younger generation in B.A. more accepting and open minded. We enjoy the Palermo area (dining and shopping especially). But if you’re planning to visit Argentina, don’t just think of B.A. since we love wine, we visited Mendosa during Vendimia and Santiago, Chile just across the border. While it was freezing in the Northern hemisphere, Punta del Este (the Portenos’ playground) is a short 45 minute flight from B.A.; perfect if you just want to relax by the ocean and enjoy the casino at night. Generally, we found Argentines, we more receptive to tourists especially if they thought you were going to give them some US$; we used that mentality to our advantage. We were well dressed so the shop keepers rolled out the red carpet treatment and some were prepared to haggle a bit.
Dress how you want to get treated. Dress well and act respectful of their customs and in turn, expect to be treated with respect. It has worked for us all over the world even in B.A.
I may look like “a gringo” but I try to act like “a local”.
Here is a good article on this issue:
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/georegions/southamerica/argentina01.htm
I also want add to all the great comments above, that it is not always that easy to see if people are racist during a short visit. I thought Costa Ricans were nice, until I decided to live there and only then I realized how racist they are. I did not see that side of the ticos when I was a just tourist. When they know you are from North America, they treat you well and they want your $s.
I have been to many latin countries, the one place I did not feel any racism was Colombia. I found Colombians to be far more open and welcoming.
Cheers
RF
HELPPPP!!!! I am in dire need of a hairdresser that knows how to do black hair in Buenos Aires. My hair is relaxed and needs to be touched up desperately. I am not used to doing my own hair (not even washing). I am even considering traveling to Brazil to get it done if I cannot find someone here. Can some PLEASE recommend a hairdresser that can do black hair in Buenos Aires? You would be a life saver!!
In Argentina it is very common to call "negrito" to your friends (even if they are blonds), it is synonym of "buddy", don't be freak thinking that someone is racist just for using a particular world. I have a big noise and my friends call me "narigon" (which means big noise), and I am proud of my nickname. Regarding the stares, they will be equally surprised and curious with a very blond person from Finland, is just that they are not used of seeing people for certain races.
We don't care about being politically correct in our culture, we are more sincere. Maybe they can call you negro, but then they won't have problem in being your friend. I perceive there is more racism in the US where people is more hypocritical, politically correct but then they are more selective in who they make their friends.
If I read one more post about a black woman not knowing what to do with her hair...Is it that hard to wear a natural style or to put in your own chemical relaxer. Is our hair such a "problem" or thing to "deal with"? Just live, travel and learn to care for your own hair in these places you choose to travel to that by virtue of little to no black populations will not have black hair salons. Gosh!!!
Well state bruno the clown. Or is it bruno the parrot? bruno want a cracker. LMAO I wish more people like you bruno would leave the US! The US would be even greater if that happened. America the beautiful has regain some of its diginity under President Obama! With the clowns they have running for the republican nomination, it's a sure fit that President Obama will be elected for another 4 years. That means you will not be coming back to the good old USA for another 4 to 5 years. BTW, I will be visiting Argentina in the next year. If you see a black or negro man with a I love Obama T-shirt on, come make yourself known so I can buy you a drink to show my appreciation for such white trash leaving the greatest country (USA) on earth! Tip: stay out of grown folks business Bruno. No one ask a white man for his opinion. This discussion is between Spanish Argentinians and people of African descent.
Just move to Brazil, Columbia, Paraguay, Peru, all beautiful countries with hardly any of the problems you are worried about. Argentina is notoriously a VERY racist country, as is evident by the individual posting this article. Who starts answering a question with a "we consider Peru, Columbia, Bolivia etc" inferior but we're a super respectful country. WTF?... If history serves me right the land belonged to the indigeneous people and so on before this so called "Europeans not from Europe" even arrived. Anyways I'm rambling on. The world is a beautiful place with many beautiful cultures keep your options open :)
i could be hyper sensitive but my week in BA was filled with settle racism. service at restaurants sucked, until they got their big american tip and then were soo grateful. let me back track, went with one friend whos also half black half anglo from northern cali. plenty of stares but honestly the only ones i was even trying to notice were the girls. and its true if your a good looking brotha from the states girls stare and approach you at clubs(not on the streets tho) i speak just about zero spanish and we had a couple arg girls who were into us and told us to sit with them, well some girl decided to walk by and throw a crunched up napkin at one of the girls faces!! i was liked whats that about? she just shrugged her shoulders and we continued our lost in translation conversation. another time im waiting in line in the bank and a fourty something year old women decided she didnt have to wait in line behind me and just cut in front of me! (i was like wtf)so i just decided i would try to stare her down and give her the old wtf face, but of course she wouldnt even make eye contact, as if i wasnt even their. (not racist but worth noting was that three times when asked where were from and we told them SF there was a little giggle and then asked if we were gay!) theirs diff a stereotype with californian blacks and especially sf brothas.
i'm living in rosario argentina (the other big city of argentina) and i lived in BA for 3 years. Never had an episode of racism or violence towrds me so far..
I understand that some poeple can be surprised or non have idea to react about us because they didn't see many blacks in their lives for so long
speaking about women, since today i'm shocked about the quality, it's crazy they all look good and most of them are like godess and they are just regular girls walking on the streets,it's insane.
lately i'm seeing them more open about dating or meeting us, a few years ago it was different we where just a fantasy for them now it's starting to change in a very good way
if someone wants t talk with me about it can reach me on yahoo (fabrice_daman@yahoo.com)
see ya
I am a black woman staying in Buenos Aires for 6wks and thinking of extending my stay. My experience has been nothing but positive so far. I get lots of attention from men and the women are pleasant enough. I know people are curious about me and I don't blame them. I would be too. For those who are open, I like to break stereotypes. Let them be amazed by the unexpected.
My main reason for staying in Bs As is for Tango where I'm the only black woman to be found on the dance floor. Of course back in the US I'm generally the only one, if not one of very few as well. I'm sure there are negative things being said and thought about me but I believe that that happens everywhere. It remains to be seen of course how things play out and again I'm not living here just on a long vacation.
I am a black male from America. I'm extremely light skinned (people always ask me if I'm mixed, which I'm not) and I'm going to Cordoba, Argentina for the month of July what should I expect? It's the 2nd largest city in Argentina but I heard it's more of college town so I'm hoping the people are more excepting of people of color. I've read just about every comment but I still don't have a clearcut answer. I live in the Georgia and I know first hand how people can be when it comes to race. Should I expect the Argentina to be like GA?
Also I am a very outgoing person meaning I have no problem starting a conversation with a complete stranger. Should I be cautious of this in Argentina?
Mamma mia!, and I wanted to visit that beautiful country, I'd rather holiday in any country in Africa or stay quietly in the United Kingdom, my adoptive country. So this is what really happened to my black brothers and sisters who were brought against their will to Argentina, my heart is broken, my heart is bleeding, stop racism people of Argentina, racism is evil, it never pays off, it destroys you inside and out and makes you look ugly.
I am a black american female traveling alone in Argentina. I was first here around 1993. There were
were many people yelling at me when I left my hotel to walk around. I heard the word Linda many times I ran
back to my hotel to ask the meaning and was I safe. I was told that it was a good word and people are curious.
So I left again with confidence an enjoyed my vacation. Now when I look back I wnder how many were calling
me pretty and hw many were insulting me?
I am here again in 2015 traveling alone. I have felt and experienced nothing but kindness and friendly
expressions everywhere I have been so far.
maybe just smetimes you get back whats in your heart?. I dont experience racism here but then again, im not
looking for it either.
I don't doubt what others have experienced here, but I have experienced more racism at home than in Buenos Aries
All Interesting posts .. I am a black female, age 20 from the Caribbean and I have been living in Argentina for over a year now .. with that being said I have had 3 bad experiences( racially related) but I've also met really awesome people here that have become like family
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