Do Argentines Hate Us?
Here's a rather negative post made last month by an expat who was pretty disgruntled and upset with Argentina.
Reader's Comment
I love reading these superficial posts where Americans write about pretty women, cheap prices and good food. I'm another American who has lived on and off in BA since before the economic crash, often for 2 years at a time. Here's what I think... Argentines don't generally like us much. They blame America for their econonomic woes. Sure, the women are nice looking and the place is cheap but one cannot go there and think he or she will be accepted into the culture or date any of these fine girls. You are a foreigner and a foreigner you will stay!
Yes, You Can Be Accepted
I would consider myself pretty integrated at this point. People tell me I speak good Spanish. I make an effort to understand things from an Argentine point of view. I have Argentine friends and I ask only that they accept me for who I am, which has nothing to do with the politics of my country. I don't get mad at my Argentine friends when I get poor service from the bureaucrats here, so I don't expect them to generalize about how I am based on my government.
And although this person said one cannot expect to be "accepted", I should comment that I do happen to be dating one of those girls that people talk about. I have lots of Argentine friends who have accepted me and like me for who I am. I imagine there are plenty of other expats with similar stories. It isn't impossible to go to a new country and be accepted into the society. However, if you go there with a chip on your shoulder and get upset the minute someone makes a bad comment about your country of birth, you might have a hard time fitting in.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't really feel the need to defend the United States when people make some comment or express an opinion. Now, obviously, if they say something totally ridiculous (i.e. the CIA blew up the World Trade Center, and yes I've heard this opinion expressed), I try to explain the facts to that person in a respectful manner, but I wouldn't get upset with anyone who's just putting their opinion out there.
I think expats will find that although Argentines might not have a favorable view towards the United States or Americans, that opinion is formed without them actually knowing you personally. Once people get to know you and see you're not the cartoonish money-grubbing yanqui capitalist who's come to steal the country's resources, you'll find you can get along with people here and be accepted into society just fine.
Labels: Argentina Travel, Business, Living In Argentina
posted by SoyYo at 1/18/2007 08:59:00 PM
62 Comments:
As an Englishman now living in Buenos Aires, we tend also to get stick about our history with Argentina. But as your post highlights if you are respectful and accept the ways and customs of Argentines, and in particular make an effort to speak their native tongue, they soon warm to you.
The English generally tend to have the same opinion of Americans whether they are tourists or expats in the UK, and abroad for that matter. We are all different in our ways and resent visitors to our countries undermining who and what we are. If you are happy to pitch in and not make comparisons or complain about the negatives, Argentina is tough to beat as a country with what it has to offer.
If I was in UK and constantly reading about how much money people had made from our misfortunes or lack of foresight, I would be the first to be disgruntled. There are certain bloggers on this site that love to boast about their money making achievements with little respect for the Argentine ....fine to make a good living but keep it to yourself rather than shout from the roof tops !
I've tried to speak as clear and proper porteño Rioplatense Spanish as I can. I eat the foods without question. I speak frankly with the people with whom I converse. I have no chip on my shoulder. When they ask me what I like about Argentina I tell them. When they ask me what I don't like about it, I tell them, too. Honestly. I don't whine about how everything is better in the USA or how slow and inefficient everything is. I get along fine when I'm there. So far, no problems. Full disclosure: my wife is Argentine.
I would have agreed with this post about four years ago. There were many in Argentina blaming others for their problems.
But today that is just incorrect. I don't see argentines blaming anyone anylonger for two reasons: 1) xenophobia has gone down quite a lot 2) the economy is doing extremely well now, people are no longer so concerned about economic issues.
Argentina has some of the most liberal real-estate property laws for foreigners on Earth, even more so than most other countries in the region or Western Europe and North America.
Maybe the original "Reader" (from the Reader's Comment) should consider that normally a local person -in any country- is not naturally going to be happy about foreigners who go to their country to exploit a situation of convenience: those posts about "pretty women, cheap prices and good food" say it all. If you are there to take advantage of a situation that in fact is unfortunate for the locals, and then behave like you own the place, be ready for hostility or face your behaviour and modify it.
I think that what you say could go for just about any country, not just Argentina. I'm an American in Italy, and I didn't come here expecting anything. If I was to be accepted, great - and if not, that's okay too. I've made great friends and I'm never lonely. They have their opinions about the U.S. but they don't let it stop them from getting to know me as a person. When you move to a foreign country, your integration into society and ability to make friends and/or date, depends solely on you. Not your countrymen, and not them. If you're open and respectful, you get the same in return. I'm delighted to have found such wonderful friends in such a short about of time here in Italy. :-) It's all because I was simply open.
As has been pointed out being an ex-pat ... anywhere in the world ... is not always an easy undertaking. You have to learn to adjust and adapt. You aren't in Kansas (or London, etc.) anymore. You have to work at being accepted. You have to understand that if you are coming an economically better off country you might be resented. The onus is one you, this is their country and it is up to you to show that you are here to assimilate not decimate or plunder or take advantage. I came to Argentina 3 or 4 times a year between 1999 and 2004 for work before I retired and decided to move here. Those years gave me time to learn about the culture, some of the idiosyncracies, good points and bad BEFORE I undertook a move. I was not prepared for the bureaucracy but I have adjusted. I was not ready to stand in line for an hour to pay my electric or gas bill, but I adjusted and accept it. I came here for the less hurried lifestyle, the natural beauty of the country, the food, and the people (I live in Rosario which is much friendlier than "Porteno"ville ... kind of like the difference Chicago v New York).
There is little use comparing where you are now with where you came from. So what if everything is inefficient or they don't have all the latest electronic gizmos. Here, at least I have found, friends and family are what matter not your material things and it sounds like the Original Reader can't let go of their past life in order to enjoy their new life. Yes the US government gets blamed for much of the economic problems and believe it or not some of that criticism is valid but while I am asked about the government I am not judged by it. I have never had anyone get upset with me for asking why things are the way are here either, maybe that is because it is not asked to ridicule but rather asked so that I can learn more.
VAMOS ARGENTINA!
My friend, my friend, you can bet that it is way harder for an Argentine to make American friends in the States, than it is for an American to meet people in Baires. It's that easy and that obvious.
my feeling is this about portenos is that they are superficially friendly and certainly not people that are capable of deep emotions in many cases.
"...porteños are superficially friendly and certainly not people that are capable of deep emotions"
How ironic and funny, that's exactly the same widespread opinion you get to hear about USA people, at least over here in Europe. (i.e. americans are shallow, not like us capable of deep blah blah blah)
Must be something universal about being human and not trusting those who are not culturally similar
hola, como porteño coincido con muchos de sus comentarios, somos un poco jodidos para aceptar a gente nueva....pero no solo pasa con gente de otro pais, tambien entre nosotros mismos, aca en baires, la gente esta concentrada en sus propios problemas. lo mas importante para ser aceptado por los porteños es saber romper el hielo, es decir.....saber como llegarle al porteño, mostrando interes en la cultura, en la ciudad, etc....osea demostrarnos a los porteños que quieren y que hacen el esfuerzo por integrarse a nosotros. nada mas eso es todo, cuando el porteño entienda eso, les enseñara mucho tanto como lo que ustedes nos pueden enseñar a nosotros.
un abrazo grande y les deseo una feliz estadia en mi pais. exitos
Argentines have inferiority complexes. I am Argentine born living in the States and go back often.
When I am there (and I was there this Christmas and New Year's 2006-2007) I NEVER mention anything that they don't bring up first. Not my house, my lifestyle, my income or my dating life.
They get this deer in headlight look of not being interested AT ALL in what I have to bring to the table.
I spend my time with family only and we are quite typical in that we are bi-lingual and well educated and of course, very funny.
NADA...No digo nada.
Regarding the inferiority complex comment:
I have read a lot of stories in travel forums (i.e. Lonely Planet's) with people from a lot of places (New Zealand, Canada, you name it: wherever) complaining that their friends and family are not at all interested in their experiences after they come back form living abroad. It's called jealousy and it's international.
I have a problem with putting entire nations in one bag: The Argentines are this, The French are that, The German, The Chinese... It's the way prejudice works.
I dont think it is as simple as jealousy. I think it has more do do with not being able to relate or just not interested. Or both. This is universal.
"NADA...No digo nada. "
Mejor así, gracias.
Jaja, buenísimo el último.
A ver si vamos a estar esperando las novedades de un quía que se tomó el palo, y decidió abandonar nuestra imperfecta sociedad y unirse a otra.
Te deseamos la mejor.
``what British asshole that brings 82 war``.......Argentina started the war by taking over the islands in order for a failing government to win popularity. Unfortunately the British government used the war for the same reasons as Thatcher at time was on a downturn.
I have sympathy for Argentina over the Malvinas issue but not when the facts are not straight and the UK takes the blame for the whole bloody mess.
Anonymous said:
I would have agreed with this post about four years ago. There were many in Argentina blaming others for their problems.
But today that is just incorrect. I don't see argentines blaming anyone anylonger for two reasons: 1) xenophobia has gone down quite a lot 2) the economy is doing extremely well now, people are no longer so concerned about economic issues.
Argentina has some of the most liberal real-estate property laws for foreigners on Earth, even more so than most other countries in the region or Western Europe and North America.
-------------------
This was in today's issue of The Guardian newspaper... and seems quite apt in reply to the anonymous comment above:
"Douglas Tompkins calls himself a 'deep ecologist'. He is a millionaire on a quest to preserve some of Argentina's last frontier lands from human encroachment by buying them and turning them into ecological reserves.
But Argentina may not permit him such philanthropy. Opponents are branding him a new-age 'imperialist gringo' and claim he has a secret aim: to help the US military gain control of the country's natural resources.
...
The Argentinian press has suggested Tompkins might be a covert CIA operative securing US access to the [Guarani] aquifer. And even Argentinians who don't share such conspiracy theories are uncomfortable with Tompkins transforming his properties into environmentally pristine but unpopulated and economically unproductive areas."
Read the full article - http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/...
Here's Doug Tompkin's philosophy in his own words:
http://www.deepecology.org/lookingback.html
I am surprised that the Guardian is writing this story now..it is old and from what I can tell is over. It was Luis D'Elia (a psuedo minister that lost his job over defending Iran soon after he backed off Thompkins due to pressure from someone) that suggested that Thompkins was part of more nefarious plot, not the press..they were reporting what what quick and furious story and he was left looking like a blowhard.
"Just take any country for what it is" ...comparing countries does not make any sense.
Question: who's fault is that the whole world does not like USA?
Answer: US government (specially republicans)
Como argentino, agradezco el respeto de sus comentarios acerca de mi pais,
Quisiera agregar (en realidad contestando en uno a varios posteos) que has tenido tratos solo con gente un poco de derecha, especialmente en el hecho de asistir a una marcha de Blumberg y no a una de militantes de Derechos Humanos.
Coincido en que uno no deberia defenestrar a un estadounidense solo por serlo, pues es el gobierno de su pais y no el visitante con el que uno trata el que el que se ha convertido en el terrorista global que amenaza al mundo, encarnado esto en su actual presidente.
Sin ser de izquierda, apoyo la gestion de nuestro presidente (quien me parece mas bien de derecha, especialmente en lo economico) pues aqui no hubo una guerra ni "dos demonios", sino el asesinato de una generacion entera que molestaba para diseñar un pais mas docil.
Celebro que estes en Argentina, estaria bueno que tuvieras trato con intelectuales y luchadores populares, pues te ayudarian a quitar preconceptos, especialmente en cuanto a creer que los militantes sociales o la gente de izquierda son algo reprobable
un abrazo desde Argentina
Hmm,
considerando que por año matamos en accidentes automovilísticos unas 3100 personas, es decir bastantes más que los ingleses en Malvinas, yo diría que el exterminio continua, y a nadie parece preocuparle demasiado. Pero como no hay ideología de por medio, no son personas, son un número. Adelante pues.
Buenos,
Soy americano y estoy preparando a pasar un año en Buenos Aires para participar en un proyecto medical. Yo estudié en España para cinco meses y no tenía ningún problema asimilando con la gente y la cultura. Siempre yo trató de vivir y pensar en la misma manera de las personas nativas.
Sin embargo, estoy un poco nervioso con el viaje. Yo he oído que las personas argentinas tienen demasiado orgullo, y no quieren hablar ni conocer los americanos. Los argentinos que han respondido aqui me parecen muy amable y de buenos modales, y estoy esperando que la ciudad va a aceptarme si yo demuestro interés verdadero en la cultura y manera de vivir. ¿Es la realidad o no?
También estoy interesado en la manera corecta a comunicar con los porteños... ¿como debo iniciar conversacion en la calle, el cafe, las discos con los hombres y las mujeres? ¿Es impropio a tratar de hablar con los desconocidos? Espero a conocer porteños allá porque no voy a conocer nadie y me gustaría comer y salir con la gente de Buenos aires!! ¿es una esperanza realistica o no?
Bueno, estaría muy agradable a recibir consejos de personas típicas de Buenos Aires. Estoy emoncionante para la experiencia.
Gracias!
Lo siento, pero me gustaría añadir que no estoy comparando España con Argentina en el ultimo, Yo sé que son paises totalmente distintos en continenentes diferentes... solo hago el punto que me encanta transformar en una cultura nueva, especialmente si la cultura aceptame.
Saludos
Great blog-- I have read a lot thus far, agreeing with some things, disagreeing with others. I found the sections about work visas very helpful, as someday, I may be looking for opportunities in Argentina.
I am a recent college graduate in the field of Environmental Studies, who before graduation, studied abroad in Argentina. We spent most of our time in Bs.As. and studied at USAL. During the three week program, we visited Salta and Jujuy for 4 days, including visits to Humahuaca, Cafayate, San Miguel de Tucuman, and then to other places, such as Iguazu, and Tigre.
Being on a study abroad program, I will admit that my experience was slightly one-sided- that is, we were generally seeing the upper-class points of view. But, I feel this had little bearing on my outlook and experience as a whole. Sure, me and my friends were stared at while walking down the street in Salta, and I received some awkward and disproving glances in restaurants or bars in Bs.As. But, as other posts made it clear, this is what others see on the outside. Once you get to know someone, things change.
My experience with my host family was amazing. They were curious and intrigued by my life in the US as they were happy to share their lives in Argentina with me. They made known their view of Kirchner, whether they were for La Boca or River Plate, and who their favorite tennis player was. Similarly, I made my preferences known. And of course, they were always ready to share some mate' (which I am now an addict).
The Argentine students were even more accepting. There were more Argentine students in our classes than US students. The class discussions and the views expressed were extremely valuable in terms of understanding the country. I believe the experiences with students and my host family provided me with more of a learning experience than the actual course, which focused on globalization (extremely prevalent), the environment, and social capital.
I am still in contact with many of the Argentine students. They always ask, "When are you coming back? Remember, you have a place to stay!"
The best part of my experience, however, was when I decided to stay an extra week. A student from the class invited me to visit her hometown of Tandil. Of course, I accepted the invitation. My time there was amazing. She and her family were incredibly hospitable. We are now officially a "dating couple" despite the distance. In fact, she has traveled to the US to visit just recently.
So, there is no way I can relate to such statements by the disgruntled comments made by the reader. Give other people and yourself a chance. Accept that you are different in a foreign place. Do not fear vulnerability- learn from it.
Interesting that the Falklands war (Malvinas) should come up. There is no doubt historically, that it was started by a desperate military government but equally it worked well for Thatcher's government. I am not sure however that Argentinians in general appreciate, that by winning the war, the British actually brought the downfall of that much hated military rule. Ironically maybe, the Argentinians should be thanking the British.
Things do not work like that however and in time the "problem" will arise again. When this happens - depending on where the USA stands - it will not be a good time to be in Argentina if you are an American. That is simply a sad fact. I hope nothing like that happens again because I love Argentina. I also think that the Argentinians have far more in common with the British than any other nation (more on that another time). You must all take note however that the people (on mass) of any country can easily turn nasty - when led by politicians. It is a simple fact and the way that human beings have always been.
I enjoy your blog and mostly for the diverse range of opinions you allow to be published .
I am very concerned though about a fellow blogger who wants to curtail free speech here in Argentina
I've read "Yankee" Mike's attacks on the baespats group and I've been outraged by his attempts to silence any difference of opinion. As you pointed out, we have the freedom to express ourselves in Argentina. Mike would like to curtail that freedom. Maybe he would be happier living in Cuba, North Korea or a progressive place like Saudi Arabia. I'm sure the authorities in these countries would admire Mike's enthusiasm for presenting a positive national image.
maybe I am missing something here but I thought Chris S made some valid points - a response like that must deserve some explanation.
I dont think it is fair to rip into someone without expressing your point of view - spill the beans and lets hear your side of the story !
I'm reminded of when I was stationed in Okinawa. I can honestly say that 99% of my fellow airmen considered it a hardship post, but I actually loved it so much that I extended my tour an extra year (2.5 yrs. total).
The difference? I sought out locals who could teach me about their culture, only talking about the US when they asked questions.
The other guys only ventured off-base to hit the bars and brothels. Of course, they saw only the worst examples of Okinawa's citizens, and vice-versa.
Any place you go will have positive and negative people. It's your own attitude that will determine which will want to spend time with you.
As a loyal Englishman I fully praise all soldiers who took the falklands away from the Argies who stole those old British Empire islands from us and also I fully praise Thatcher for her Iron lady persona. The English soldiers of whom that died will live eternally.
Hello,
Since this post deals with the idea of acceptance, perhaps this is the place to ask this question.
How are the physically disabled, such as elderly that have to use a crutch or wheelchair to get around treated in Argentina?
Just a little background into what precedes the question. Like Jan who posted on one of the other pages about retiring on a small military income, my husband is retired veteran who earns a small pension and a small disability pension from the VA. Grand total about $1200 a month. We are both in our 40's and will have no other retirement except social security - should it even exist by the time we can claim it. We have been researching the possibilities of moving and living overseas for the rest of our lives. But there are many things to consider, so please don't let that sound like a flippant idea.
My question stems from the fact that I would expect for my parents to come down at least part of the time to be with/near us should we be able to get settled. I can't leave them behind, they are close to 80 and have no other family close. My mom is now at the point where she cannot get around without a crutch and must use a wheelchair for any longer trips say to get around the grocery store.
Does anyone have any experience with this or any insights?
Thanks so much for your blog, it
"You sound like the worst person I could ever imagine meeting. That is simply a fact. I really hope you are just a 7th grader learning about basic world history by a short-sighted, pathetic teacher.
You caused me to throw up a little in my mouth and die a little in my heart just from reading your disgusting paragraph. You should take note that you're an idiot. It is a simple fact.
Good luck. seriously, good luck."
Y para más inri
"As a loyal Englishman I fully praise all soldiers who took the falklands away from the Argies who stole those old British Empire islands from us and also I fully praise Thatcher for her Iron lady persona. The English soldiers of whom that died will live eternally."
No comments needed. Fanatism and idiocy (unbreakable union) speak by themselves.
And for Chris, I couldn't agree more about the direct causes and consequences of the war and the argentine perception of it all.
But this is no about whose blame it is. War is war.
British and Argentines alike?? Hmmm, yeah as any westerner is alike to another.
Don't worry about another conflict, worry about USA's (and every political élite's in the world including Argentina's) greedy neoliberalism, etc.
And, indeed, the mass will always be the mass. A simple fact.
Un saludo
hola, a sam le digo que me puede contactar por mail que quiero practicar un poco de ingles ya que voya viajar a estados unidos a fin de año por trabajo y quiero aprender un poco como tratar a las personas de eeuu cualquier cosa que necesite que me escriba por mail o msn nysbussi@hotmail.com
hola, a sam si quiere puede contactarme por mail ya que a fin de año me voy a trabajar a eeuu y quisiera aprender a como tratar con la gente de alla respetuosamente y sin malentendidos mi mail es nysbussi@hotmail.com
This is a great blog! I'm an Argentinean living in Los Angeles, CA and I've seen that as long as you are respectful and kind, and if you are willing, you can always make friends anywhere in the world. A lot of people have opinions about other cultures; all you need to do is to maybe clarify if someone is misinformed.
Too bad some people brought the Malvinas/Falkland subject to this blog. Some British and some Argentineans will always have a different opinion about it. Mine is that any new conflict is unnecessary and the only times that people talk about it in Argentina is when, unfortunately, the politicians use it as part of their campaign. For those British who plan to visit Argentina, I’d say to not focus on the islands/war issues and you’ll see that you won’t have any problems making friends.
Have fun!
To all of the USA bloggers here and other anglophyles:
What you want is for Argentines to "love" you. You want to be accepted and partake of the life style in bsas or wherever. Right?
To do that you need to be less emotionally retentive and perhaps more emotianally regular. Its no good to be emotionally incontinent either (as when anglos get drunk and all comes out - rot and all). Be yourself. Be open and straightforward. If you don't like something say it, but in a spirit of humility trying to understand rather than to patronize. Give people the benefit of the doubt and don't rely on your place of birth or other country experiences to belittle the -obviously- imperfect country that ARgentina is. Like any young and beautiful girl, you will love her at times and hate her at other times. Ah, me olvidaba: no agiten la bandera americana demasiado y especialmente si tiene la cara de Bush en la misma.
Buena suerte y bienvenidos!
Regarding to the comment posted about handicap accessibility in Argentina, all I can say is that, even though access is improving (as renovations and new buildings are constructed), in general the infrastructure is not there. However, culturally, you will be not only accepted, but also be "taken care of" by the public. By this I mean that Argentines will generally try to help, with particular attention, that who needs special attention.
Bu, what strikes me the most about your post is the fact that you and your family have to look at moving overseas just to make ends meet. We offer our lives to the prosperity of our country, and then what?
God bless you, and good luck with your search.
La integración es un proceso personal, que no va a depender de los otros más que de uno mismo en tanto y cuanto haya RESPETO, RESPETO y MAS RESPETO.
Aquí en Bs As, en Sri Lanka, en Londres y en cualquier parte del mundo...
ms,
Tenes razón. Igualmente el problema aquí radica en que muchos argentinos critican a EEUU todo el tiempo, pero no quieren escuchar ninguna crítica sobre su propio país. Me entendes? A mi me parece que antes de pedir respeto de los demás hay que empezar por uno mismo. No es justo exigir de otros lo que uno no hace. Si alguien se la pasa basureando a otro país no puede esperar que la gente de ese país después lo alabe. Es muy simple. Es como aquellos sacerdotes que dicen "Haz lo que yo digo pero no lo que yo hago". Yo a esos les diría: Practice what you preach ;-)
I think it is a very interesting blog. I am a Russian with Canadian passport who lives and works in the US. I moved to Argentina in 1998 and stayed there for 7 month. I made more friends in 7 month then in the next 10 years living in Canada and the US. Fail to mention, I have also met my future wife. We live in the US because that is where I can make good money and support my family.
I think Argentines are very friendly and very cultural people. I never had so many interesting, cultural and political discussions as I had there. I think educated and culturally diverse people understand each other, no mater what country they are from. And it is always nice to hear different opinions. I never was offended or felt unwelcome in this country. When I moved to Canada and then US I realized that thair culture is completely different. People are generally isolated and are not interested in other cultures with political correctness being the main taboo. So any real discussion is only possible among close friend. Again, if you live in the big metropolitan center, you probably have a lot of interesting and educated people, not less then in Buenos Aires. Just do not go to “Cowboy Land” of central USA.
Still, the best place I lived was and will be Buenos Aires. I will return back as soon as I find any decent job there. I know that this day will come soon.
The last two comments were hilarious!
The first one was written by a hate-filled anti-American from Argentina, who called for the slaughter of American citizens because he disagrees with the Iraq War. WHAT THE HELL DOES THE IRAQ WAR HAVE TO DO WITH ARGENTINA? WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS? Are you still upset that we sided with the UK in the Falklands War? Are you jealous because your once-machismo military is now a weak shell of its former self? Or are you just a terrorist-sympathizer?
The other comment was from a Russian who apparently fled his own cesspit of a country to come to the United States for work and freedom. He doesn't find Americans "educated" enough for his taste, and is offended that they aren't interested in his stories of Mother Russia. So, he basically hates America (the country that welcomed him and gave him a high-paying job), and wants desperately to move to Argentina...but apparently the economy sucks down there, so he CONTINUES TO LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES!
You gotta love America-bashing foreigners!
To mudkips: I'm with you.
Apparently, that silly saying about not biting the hand that feeds you doesn't have a Spanish or Russian translation.
Ridiculous.
Please stop referring to the United States as "America". The "terrorists" are mad at the U.S.A. not the whole continent (hummmm, i wonder why...?). That's right, America is a continent, not just a country filled with people who think their nation is the center of the universe.
-M- Proud AMERICAN from Argentina.
MATIAS - stop being so insecure, you sound like a short person with some huge Napoleanic complex.
Go ahead & be proud of coming from Argentina, that's great.
Go ahead & split hairs and complain about America being misused when just referring to the US of A. It just makes you look like a guy with a small weiner though.
In reality, no one, no where, refers to "America" as anything but the USA. Although America is in fact a continent, inclusive of both North & South America, it is used most commonly to refer to the USA. When referring to the continents people refer to North America, Central America, or South America. No one refers to America in the way you wish it to be used, people referring to the entire contiental area refer to the Americas (note the s at the end), which includes all parts (N,S,C,Carib...) of the American continent.
I know to be a fact in English, and Spanish (as used in Argentina and other places). So yes, your argument is correct on some academic level, but very wrong on the reality level of ordinary people which makes you sound like you have an axe to grind against Americans and you just pick some silly argument as a cover to whine.
If you want to make other stupid academic arguments why dont you whine about those damn US citizens who say they are from the "United States." Oh my gosh, how offensive, no one would know where they are from if they said that. Gee, they could come from any of the several countries who are officially called UNITED STATES of ____ (like Mexico for example, its proper name is United States of Mexico. Don't you agree that whoever would make this argument would be an a-hole?
Because the USA is called America for short does not mean we Americans think we are the center of the world. That is small minded, and does not include the many other reasons why this could happen.
So, dont be so unhappy that you are a South American, and I am an American, we all come from the same continent, and we're still all from The Americas.
Wouldn't that be two different American Continents???
Hi!!!
I'm from Argentina and find this subject very interesting.
I'm studying to be a tanslator so I can assure the one person that said that we use "americano" to refer to someone who comes from the USA that that is not totally correct. We use a lot more the word "estadounidense", probably because we don't say "Estados Unidos de México" (as in the example he/she used), we just call it "México". As a translator, I'm told not to translate "American" as "americano". That's a huuuge mistake and I could flunk a test if I do it. The reason our professors give us: Americano es alguien que viene del continente Americano. Es para hablar en general y no debe usarse para referirse a un país en especial. (American is someone who comes from the American Continent. It's a word used to make a general statement, not to refer to someone from an specific country). Furthermore, if you just look up the word in the dictionary of the "Real Academia Española" you will find that the main entry is "someone from América" (the continent, not the USA) and, at the bottom, use to refer to "estadounidense". And if you look up for "estadounidense" you won't find "americano" as an explantion.
Sam if you are still here in the country I'd be glad to meet you and practice our languages together. Or anyone who's here or planning to come. My e-mail address is: chrissy05_6@hotmail.com
I hope I was useful.
¡¡¡Kisses for everyone!!!
Gigi.
First of all, after travelling and living in many different countries, I consider myself a world citizen and a friendly and tolerant person. I have for the most part loved the people and places I have lived from Moscow to Quito. Having said all that, I am stuck in Buenos Aires for work and can't stand the place. The people are awful. The portenos make it hell just by their arrogant attitude. They pretend to be friendly, but in reality they don't mean it. Its very disturbing and I am opting to get out of my contract as soon as possible. I seriously believe that as long as they maintain this attitude the economy will continue to be bad. I would beg to differ that it is doing well, because frankly it has been left behind and I am sure it will continue to be left behind, while places like Eastern Europe have been growing. I had to recommend to all the investors I represent to only deal minimally with this country and not establish an office or anything else here due to the arrogance, corruption and beurocracy.
trulyunique77,
You sound like a truly unique ass. I love how you declare yourself "a friendly and tolerant person" but then rant about how the people of Buenos Aires are suffering because of their attitude. Who is the one being arrogant here?
I ve been reading some comments and i only can say the following so you can know a little more about some of us.Some people in Buenos Aires specially from the north part of the city, has a cultural and wealthy way of life that we appreciate and feel as unique.Most of us travel a lot, we ve been in europe in USA Asia etc.And we really like them.Anyway we prefer Punta del Este or Jose ignacio for hollydays.We had dinner in the most glamours restaurants in Paris but we prefer to do it in Palermo with our friends that most of them are from childhood (a very diffcult thing to do specially in USA where people move a lot since childhood and friends changes generally a lot) and a lot of more issues difficut to explain from a guy from other places.Anyway we like and accept friends from everywhere.May be americans feels that we are not very interested in them if they compare to other places where being american is "so cool" that s may be one reason.But i dont see any of my friends being rude to any person,We dont matter where they come from or what language they speak but how they are as persons.And its true that we prefer Argentine girls to american and a lot of us prefer specially the brazilian girls more even than portenas girls.
See you here or there!!
As an American (from the US but living in Asia) I have been wanting to come to B.A. for such a long time, it has been some kind of romantic dream for me. It's such a beautiful city.
Now that I am here I have to say I am a bit disappointed by the standoff-ish and rude/arrogant attitude of waiters, taxi drivers, hotel staff and people here in general. A lot of people here just seem really pissed off or bitter about something. I dont expect any special treatment, just some professionalism.
Anonymous:
Your attitude toward "American Republicans" is equivalent to a Socialist that is anti business and opposes people that want to work hard and get ahead. In other words you are jealous and apparently too lazy to change you own life for the better so you resent those that do want to have nice things.
In America we call it the American Dream (which is why all of these people all over the world have come to America). No other country in the world has offered the opportunity for someone to achieve success and bring happiness to yourselves and your children and the result is a better life for all. A Good Example is is Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft Corporation and the inventor of the PC computer and Windows operating system which has totally changed the world. If Bill had not had the opportunity he could never have achieved this for the world. Actually Macintosh, the other computer was invented by Steve Job also because of the American opportunity.
Why has America become the strongest and the most influential nation in history? It is because of our commitment to individual freedom and belief in a Democracy that rewards the individual with capitalistic gains through hard work, education, and ingenuity. We are a country that is run by laws that we actually received from our English ancestors at the founding of the USA.
I am an Anglo/Celt with roots back to England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales in the 1700s. My people were known as colonials and yes we are the people that fought the English against "Taxation without Representation". Sounds like you are still in favor of Taxation and a central government that dominates it's people and that is the reason England has gone backward in it's world influence. So you opposition to REPUBLICANS is easy to understand.
We are thankful for the things we have and we are not boastful and cocky about our country and we don't look down on others. Most people see Americans totally from the wrong prospective as we are also the most giving country in the world. America has always helped and reached out to those suffering and tragic situations like no other country has. Just take a look back to the shores of Normandy in France and other European countries where American Graves stand as a witness of our willingness to lay it all on the line for freedom.
Of course we have resources and we try to use them to be generous to the less fortunate. England too was a country that has reached out and in the early days of Christian Missionaries they touched the world like no other at that time. But, it seems America took over that role when England became less and less Christian.
Most Americans don't judge or put down other countries because they lack the things that we have, but probably there are enough of us that have given America a bad name to the world. Sorry for those bad representatives, but please don't judge all of us by their actions.
In answer to Bill's post...
Couldn't have stated it better!!
Thank you from America.
Argentina no es una Nación,es una suma de individualidades particulares,multiétnicas,multiculturales y que por cuestiones universales del azar comparten un espacio físico.Argentina es una ficción,y hablo de una ficción dinámica que cambia dependiendo de la persona con que se interactúa,del lugar físico y del momento,asi que cada uno de los que escribe acá tiene su propia Argentina.
No somos Brasil,no somos Europa,no somos Chile,no somos Australia,Uruguay ni Nueva Zelanda...Argentina no se parece a nada.
Sigan buscando la aguja en el pajar o simplemente diviertanse con la Argentina de Tato.
First of all, to know all of Argentina is a difficult task. Not only because it is a big country, but for the diversity of people you may find there. It's not the same Buenos Aires than Córdoba or Salta. Some people hate porteños, because many of us (yes, I'm porteño) have a great pride. The most common mistake is to confuse the first impression of a porteño with the rest of the country. Argentina is still an ideal, the dream of some good men that wanted their people to become brothers, far to be completed; while declaring our independence, we started to fight among ourselves for this or that way of government, Buenos Aires against the provinces, the provinces against the provinces, unitarism against federalism, populism, socialism, dictatorships, one-sided stories, etc. Now the war is political.
If there's a reason for why we may look proud, or hate some other countries, is because Argentina is a good country ruled by people who don't love the country, but their pockets. 100 years ago, when Argentina was a bunch of dreams, they used to, humanly, with their mistakes. Many Argentinians have been emptied of hope, so all that they have is themselves and their past.
There's not hatred for the US, there's a hatred for what we couldn't do.
Ortega & Gasset said wisely: "Argentinians, to things"
In my experience as a European studying in uni in B.A, pretty much ALL argentinians DO hate the "gringos" as well as us Europeans.
I've been coming to Argentina for about 7 years now. Every year I come I learn a little bit more about it's culture and just how much Argentines hate Americans. I understand that this my come as a shock to most grindos but the reality is that once you have return from your vacation fishing and dancing tango....the Argentines sit around drinking mate and malbec reminiscing about there guiding and teaching stories.... It's almost always bad. They have very very little good to say about Americans unless a gringo is present.
I've been 'fortunate' enough over the years to be privy to many conversations with Argentines who have a lot of involvement with tourism such as fishing, skiing, hiking or other outdoor adventures. It's been a fascinating adventure over the years to see the Argentines let their guard down in front of me and allow me to understand their true feelings about gringos.
The bottom line is that Argentines, along with many other occupants of other countries, absolutely abhor Americans. I used to fool myself into believing that Argentines were kind hearted folks who were accepting of everyone. This turned out to be a cruel joke. Argentines have nothing good to say about gringos of any sort. This includes Americans (North), British, Irish, Scotts and anyone else who counts English as their first language. When I finally realized that the Argentines hated me, it was a sad day and a real eye opener. You see, my son was born in Argentina and has both an Argentina and a U.S. passport. Had I known, in advance, the hatred that Argentines had for Americans, I would never have procreated with an Argentine woman.
Yet, here I am. Trying to find work in a land that hates gringos regardless of their familial status and regardless of their education or experience. My background is in trading commodities and negotiating multimillion dollar contracts. One would think that this would be a commodity in Argentina. Not so. Argentines know more than anyone else on the planet. If you don't believe me, just ask an Argentine and he will tell you.
The bottom line is that I was fooled for years.... But the reality is what it is. And that is that no matter what an Argentine says to your face, he has no regards for you simply because or your nationality...especially if you speak English. That makes you a gringo or a 'yanki' if you are North American.
I've made some quality decisions in my life in the last year. The first and foremost is that I WILL NOT support entities that hate me. Argentina is a country of folks that, by and large, hate everything about Americans except their money.
It has been a real eye opener to hear certain Argentines say unspeakable things about their own clients after they leave. Yet, they receive massive amounts of money from these "evil gringos" while they spend their cash in Argentina. I will not now nor EVER spend another dollar supporting people who show such great disrespect for the folks who make their very lives better.
I will no longer bring people to Argentina to fish. Instead, I will bring them to New Zealand where the kiwi's actually embrace American's and appreciate their point of view.
My dollars vote every time I purchase or do not purchase a product. I 'vote' to purchase products and services that embrace my way of life. Argentina is not one of those places. They love Americans right up to the second they get their hands on gringo dollars....the second they leave, they have nothing but hateful things to say about them.
That's the way: Vote with your feet and money. There are plenty of places to go!!!
I am from Scandinavia and studying in university here in Argentina(too flattering to call it a university) and i have noticed the same as you. Although i find it easy to see. They don't hate just Americans and British for example, but also us Scandinavians, Brazilians, Chileans etc.
And i have no idea why.
I have traveled all over the world including USA and i could never do the same generalization of you folks as for the Argentinians. You can have what ever opinion of American culture, politics, etc. but what comes to the people, Americans as persons never behave so badly and make such direct statements as hate you right in your face for being from another culture! In short: it's easy to get along with Americans, along with numerous other people, but NOT with Argentinians! Never!
I will vote with my feet and euros as soon as posible. It doesen't make any sence to support or stay in a country that doesen't welcome you.
Hi everyone, what a fascinating topic. I am a 22 yr old New Zealand girl planning my university exchange to Buenos Aires next year.
These last 2 posts has made me very anxious. I know you can't generalise a nation of people, or even a city. But, I am coming to BA to get immersed in this different culture. I want to gain some fluency in the language and I really worry if they judge me based on where I'm from I'll have a hard time making meaningful friendships with them. To make matters worse I am somewhat shy. I went on exchange last year to Mexico City, and I was overwhelmed by the kindness and friendliness of the people. I thought because I am white (really white at that!) they'd assume I was a gringo, and I for some reason assumed they hated gringos... How wrong was I.
Anyway, if anyone has any informaiton which can prepare me / help me with this adventure please Facebook mail me (steph4ever@hotmail.com) I have been tossing up for a while between Buenos Aires and Santiago, Chile.... and I am beginning to wonder now if I should choose Chile.... Any advice would be much appreciated!
I suggest rather go to Chile. I personally and my girlfriend too find them lot more open and friendly to us "gringos" which is a common name to all foreigners in Latin America, but usually it refers to the people from USA, atleast in Argentina and sometimes it has a degrading sense but sometimes it's like us calling South-American people as Latinos AKA not meant to be anything offensive, just a name. But Latin America is huge and people are different. I have found that Argentinians dont like us foreigners and if you are very blond, they will easily spot you from the crowd(Not that they will shoot you, but making true friends is hard, they are so reserved). Most of them are Italian or other Mediterranean descent so they are somewhat darker.
Another thing is that the university level in Argentina is loooooow!!!
Most of the material includes severe errors and it kind of takes your motivation down trying to study something that doesn't make any sense.LOL! Some math teachers even make up their own formulas that doesn't even exist!!!Besides everything is in Spanish, and their accent is very different from the "standard" few people speak English and i have heard they dont even want to hear it spoken because of the "gringo" hate. That's why i find it so ironic why there are so many tourists from the States.
I will like to said,I know very well portenos,I am a american,but I was born in Buenos Aires,Capital Federal,I was porteno.But over a time from my new Country,and different view,I can said what good or bad have Argentinean.Economy,no blame to no one,A country was have all,not remember one President who not only no was dong nothing for a country,but stealing,and Past in today,I was see on a TV a Women President,I was thing what do you thing you are?her and husband a only thing is make money,power,and in another side a Army,so corrupt,I don't thing was change nothing,when Evita was dead my Mother take me,I don't remember a much,I was four years old,but for that day until I was live,Army was in a power.What are more important for any Argentinean?economy and Country propests?os futbol?Where thing will win a island on a South from England?Never doing nothing for a Island and never will win.And porteno is a guy who thing are to smart,Hey I was a taxi cab,I know,if can fraud a turist is will doing,simple thing are to smart.Over a time I see in what direction go a Country,make a bad friend,especiality Venezuela,Cuba and many another,and blame all to USA,but a Country give a back to USA.Yes is nice country,very good food,but corruption,OH boy,time before I was check in a internet and see,if I won go back for turist,because I am turist,I must a paid somne i not remember how much for enter in a country,steal money for a turist,and won turist go to Argentina for Vacation?I still have a ove for a Country where I was born,but back to live or turist?,no way,I am retired,older,No have no family,only friend,no chance.Yes last years i was told my girlfriend,I said mayby go for a last time visit,but after see I must gift money to a corrupt gov?,I said no way.I am happy here,have much better change go to a Doctor,get my all prescription,I know how is a system there,yes public Hospital but how attend a peoples?what are a quality?I am sorry can't back for visit,but there a gov,no doing nothing for promot a Country to a word,in especial to all citizen was leave,and much will like back for visit.Now my mentality is alike of any another American,yes I was change my mentality,because I am a american citizen,what a opinion have over USA,bad or good,no bothel me no more.
For real hate..you want to try being a Falkland Islander..
Kindest regards
From the very best little country in the world
The Falkland Islands
Being a Brazilian that has lived many years in Argentina, I can say that Argentina has probably by far the highest level of xenophobia of any country in the world. While Brazil has 5 times the population of Argentina, there are many more Argentines living in Brazil than vice-versa, even though in general quality of life is a little higher in Argentina. There is a reason for this: Argentines are generally unwellcoming to foreigners. While in general Brazilians are very curious and interested about foreigners, Argentines are generally uninterested, and specially offended if you dare say that something might be easier or better in your country. Also, Argentines have a level of nationalism that I believe only compares to that of the USA. This stupid ideia that their country is somehow superior to all others. Tell a Brazilian that Brazil is messed up and he'll go on and on about how corrupt our politicians are and how almost every country does better. Tell an Argentine that Argentina is messed up and he'll tell you to go back to your own country! Ofcourse there are many Argentines that are not like this, and they make very good friends, but i get to that point generally means you hadbto swallow a lot of crap coming from the collective ego of Argentina. And it is a very fragile ego.
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